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Discussion in 'Bass' started by mrocco182, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. mrocco182

    mrocco182 Guest

    Hey Guys, I haven't been around in a while but now that I have started a new recording project with some new equip I have run into a few problems. My main problem is with the sound that I am getting out of my bass drum. Has anyone used the Shure PG52 bass drum mic? if so do you know how to EQ it to get decent rock "Smack" I'm using the plastic side of the bass drum beater and its on a coated head but when I record it I just get this dull crappy thud. Could it be the head? It's not too old but it might be the problem? Let me know please.

    Also, just so you know this is my setup:

    -16 Channel Behringer Board...
    -Custom Computer - M-Audio Audiophile 192.
    -Audio Technica 4040
    -Shure PG52
    -Shure PG56 (x3)
    -Shure SM57

    Just trying to get a raw recording.
  2. multoc

    multoc Active Member

    What software are you using?

    I good thing I think about is to give the kick some punch by giving an eq bump around 40-60Hz, and sucking out the mids anywhere from -1 to -5dB, and then for the clickyness give yourself a lift anywhere from 2kHz-8kHz.

    That should give you what you're looking for...

    By the way if you want a 'raw' recording...then that's what you got, no eq ='s pretty damn raw
  3. mrocco182

    mrocco182 Guest

    I'm using adobe audition.

    by raw i meant no compressors and no gates...I'm not to quick with the lingo or really even the technicalities of recording yet. I was self taught so bear with me guys
  4. multoc

    multoc Active Member

    eq.jpg i like using this as a starting point then
  5. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

  6. cfaalm

    cfaalm Active Member

    The most important questions when miking a kick:
    How does the kick sound on its own?
    Where do we place the mic?

    The PG52 is not the best of kick mics, but you should be able to get a nice sound. Try placing it 1-2" from the beater at the middle of the kettle. Moving it away gives you more moving air, but less lows due to the loss of proximity effect. Moving it to the side gives you more "wood". Find a balance.

    If you have already recorded you can find your click by making a peak and sweeping it through the spectrum.
  7. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    With all due respect guys - please...please - you're killing me with the EQ stuff.

    First, let's try to avoid EQ at all to start with and see where that takes us. Utilize placement to get the sound you want. It may take an hour of having somebody sit there and whack the bass drum, but in the process of doing so and moving the mic around, you'll start to understand exactly what sounds are made by putting the mics in various places. Eventually, you'll settle on a sound that works for you and fits easily in the mix. (Take notes along the way - they'll be invaluable...maybe use a small/cheap digital camera and document your placements and the sounds you got with each of them for memory later...)

    If you use a peak EQ and sweep it through the frequency range, you run the risk of seriously damaging your monitors. Let's say you have a woofer that reaches an impedance minimum of 2 Ohms at 80 Hz and your amplifier is say at 90 degrees phase at this point and you happen to slam the EQ at 12dB plus at 80Hz to find your sound...blam - there goes the amp or the speaker or both in your monitor...

    The PG52 is not really a great recording kick mic. I can only state this based on the fact that I own a Beta 52 which the PG52 is based on and I wouldn't record it on kick even with a knife to my throat.

    However, this doesn't mean it's not possible to get the sound you desire. Try EVERYTHING and I mean everything. Put the mic on the beater side, put it inside the kick, outside the kick and everywhere in between.

    First and foremost though - make sure the kick sounds AWESOME in the room. If it doesn't, no amount of EQ tweaking, mic placement or voodoo will ever get the kick sounding right.

    Try some of this and report back...

  8. multoc

    multoc Active Member

    Hey Cucco (J.) I tend to not trust the dB settings on Adobe Audition, because a ten on there is like a 3 on any other plugin, and since I saved up and bought the SSL plugin from Waves, I haven't needed that track EQ, because the SSL 4000 E channel strip is BEAUTIFUL!

    Just throwing that out there because I know you're referring to my post;)
  9. Link555

    Link555 Well-Known Member

    Where are you placing the mic?
    I usally use two: one on the beater side and one on the opposite side. I invert the phase of one mic.

    Sometimes if a skin is dull, I wrap a small (2 inch long)cardboard tube (paper towel roll with foam inside) arround the beater head to get more skin in the sound.
  10. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    The PG52 is a pretty good floor tom mic. Not a really good kick mic. Put it inside at LEAST 6" off the head Its kind of a 'slow mic' so it needs a bit to collect itself....putting it real close just confuses it. Also....angle it around 30 to 50 degrees off the beater contact point. The mic actually has a good 'clik' to it..it just wont do the real low lows...

    If you ARE NOT getting a solid 'clik' then your head needs some serious tuning or changing...I really dont care how old it is, some drum heads are never right and right out of the box in some caes.

    If you want that heavy thud and click that rock drums should have, then you need an Aquarian SuperKick II head with the inner control ring on both beater and resonance heads. This way you leave the drum open and woody toned, with control of the ringing and overtones created by the heads.

    Yeah, thats a couple hundred for the whole setup..Yeah its a crapload cheaper than ANY kind of mic, preamp,EQ,processor etc that you can buy to get this effect.

    One thing it does....It makes any mic choice you might have made a MUCH BETTER MIC CHOICE...........

    Havent you ever experienced one of my rants about the SOURCE???? :twisted:
  11. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Here, here! I'm drinkin' to that!

  12. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I've had similar good luck with the Evans EMAD head and a Remo Kevlar kick pad. It's a little less expensive and works pretty darn well. It takes firm tightening pretty well too. Using that with an Iron Cobra....like budda.
  13. mrocco182

    mrocco182 Guest

    thanks a lot guys, i'm definitely going to go out and pick up a new head and try out some different mic positions. I'll get back to you soon
  14. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    I'd still use an SM57 in a bass drum, any day. Can't go wrong with that.

    Nutcase broad
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  15. Crankitup

    Crankitup Guest

    try turning your beater around for more attack
  16. therecordingart

    therecordingart Well-Known Member

    I'm going to take a different approach. If your kick doesn't sound close to what you want in the room then you've already lost the battle. If you can't get it to sound close to what you want in the room then you might have to turn to samples. Most modern rock/metal recordings have a kick that is either a 100% sample or a mix of recorded kick and sample. (There are exceptions including Steve Albini's work).

    In my limited experience I've found that recording drums is extremely hit or miss. A good drum sample library and Drumagog/Soundreplacer can really help get you close to "pro" drum sounds without needing great gear or a nice live room.

    Is it cheating? I don't think so. Most rock/metal albums would be junk without drum samples.

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