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Snare micing techniques

Discussion in 'Drums' started by UTS, Dec 16, 2001.

  1. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Hi,

    What do you guys use for micing up a snare/and where do you place the Microphone?
    I've gotten good results lately with classical top/bottom micing technique with two SM57's into an RNC, but the amount of EQ I am using to get this sound irritates me somewhat. I hear some people mic the snare at the shell I guess this will bring more "crack" into the snare?
    I am looking for a ┬┤big, dirty rock snare sound with lots of snap and crack and a good amount of overtones. Using too much eq of course always brings more hi hat bleed into the picture, so there must be a mic that naturally brings more top then the SM57 and still sounds good and natural on the snare...but which???

    Thanks alot for your help.

    Best.

    Markus
     
  2. Henchman

    Henchman Active Member

    I never use 57's for anything. Try some condenser mics. 414's etc. Anything that has a pad. What do you have? I've even gotten great results using a 421
     
  3. miketholen

    miketholen Guest

    I use a Beyer 201.
    it smokes on snare. lots of krak, with a full bottom, not too harsh in da mids.
    I usually go to the source for the overtone thing, a mic won't give you more or less of them.
    ask the drummer to fix it or do it yourself.
     
  4. sign

    sign Guest

    So what's wrong with eq on the snare as long as you have a decent board or pre?

    I'm with Mike, a Beyer 201 or even a 88 or 69 will sound better than the Shure 57 and will have less hi hat bleed.

    A Sennheiser 421 will have more bleed and a Sennheiser 441 will have very little bleed but needs more high eq than the 57 but will have lots of 'bottom'. A 441 has also a much nicer off axis response, so the bleed you get will sound good :)

    If you have a good drummer you should try a small capsule condenser like KM184 or C451.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    I like the AT ATM23he. It's "designed" for snare. I mic the shell if it's a wood drum. On metal I mic the top head. I've been meaning to try the bottom mic thing. A Beyer M88 is also a cool snare mic. If micing the shell, a 414 can be very nice.
     
  6. RecorderMan

    RecorderMan Distinguished Member

     
  7. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    OK, in the last 60 days I've used 57's, a 414B/ULS and an AKG D310 in various positions. I've done top and bottom heads, top only, a mic at the side of the shell, a mic at a 90 degree angle and about a half inch from the top rim and a few others. I even did one project where I didn't need the snare mic while mixing. How's that for an answer?
     
  8. drundall

    drundall Guest

    What kind of music are you doing?
    For poppier stuff, I'll often use an AKG452. For rock, 57's top and bottom, although my favorite is a Sennheiser 441 on the bottom.

    BTW, I track with no compression unless I'm going for a certain effect. Preamps and medium come into play also.
     
  9. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Hi,

    I record mostly quite heavy rock/metal stuff, downtuned guitars and all...lots of death/black metal as well (if that says anything to you).
    I am tracking to Pro Tools, so I guess the anti PT fraction will say "ok, that's the reason", but that's a too easy way out I think. I am tracking without compression as well. 57 top and bottom but I have to use scaringly much of eq, even if all heads are new, well-tuned and mic placement has been careful (I often end up with something like 6 db @ 150Hz, some db's in the upper mid range and lots of Highs (6-10 Khz)). I mean, it sounds good, but the more eq I use the more Hi hat bleed is there of course, so I wondered if there's a condenser mic that works wonders on snares and that I have
    missed...

    Best,

    Markus
     
  10. sign

    sign Guest

    Markus

    A condenser will 'hear' more high tones, so there will be the same effect about hi hat bleed like eq

    Only eq from a not so good board or pre will cause phase problems, so the condenser is a better choice in that case.

    A really good choice is a very good drummer :)
    Why are these metal drummers hitting the hats so hard anyway? :D
     
  11. erockerboy

    erockerboy Member

    On my session today, after trying a 57 and 421 on top of the snare, we ended up going with one of the little Oktava's and it sounded great! The Oktava really picked up the 'crack' of the stick sound on this particular snare compared to the 57 or 421 which both sounded kinda mushy in comparison. Had to stick a piece of carpet around it to kill some of the hat bleed, but the mic sounded like a champ thru API pre into a 160 comp. Nice crackin' attack, with plenty of spike and sustain from the dbx. Mix in the snare sound from the OH mics, placed according to the RecorderMan standard... add a touch of the SSL bus comp... ahhhhhh, BLISS!

    Hey RecorderMan, if you're listening.... that measuring trick of yours really is the goods! Thx again!
     
  12. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    I would buy a good sounding set of 13" hihats for managing the bleed.

    Snare mics I have used recently:

    SM57- good for that 'pop.' I wouldn't use it for much if I didn't have a couple of pre's with good transformer front ends.

    Oktava MC012 w/ pad and hypercard capsule- aggressive, more high mids, reasonable bleed.

    Shure KSM32- probably my favorite, although the bleed is more pronounced than most. Work harder positioning. Very natural, and really great for miking the shell.

    Sennheiser 441- great for bleed, doesn't seem to need a lot of EQ.

    EV408- kind of a better SM57, but different...

    Originally posted by UTS:
    Hi,

    I record mostly quite heavy rock/metal stuff, downtuned guitars and all...lots of death/black metal as well (if that says anything to you).
    I am tracking to Pro Tools, so I guess the anti PT fraction will say "ok, that's the reason", but that's a too easy way out I think. I am tracking without compression as well. 57 top and bottom but I have to use scaringly much of eq, even if all heads are new, well-tuned and mic placement has been careful (I often end up with something like 6 db @ 150Hz, some db's in the upper mid range and lots of Highs (6-10 Khz)). I mean, it sounds good, but the more eq I use the more Hi hat bleed is there of course, so I wondered if there's a condenser mic that works wonders on snares and that I have
    missed...

    Best,

    Markus
     
  13. drundall

    drundall Guest

    Originally posted by Jon Best:
    I would buy a good sounding set of 13" hihats for managing the bleed.




    This is my route, but some metal drummers may not like the sound of the 13" hats. I try to place the 57 so the back of the mic is facing the hat.

    If your snare track sounds good with a lot of EQ, it is good! Don't be scared. :) Try adding a supercompressed snare channel in the mix. And be aware that many metal guys blend in snare samples.
     
  14. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Hi,

    thanks for the loads of post. I guess I have to check out one or the other mic mentioned - especially the Oktava with hypercard capsule sounds interesting.

    Yeah, I thought about the 13" Hi Hat thing. Maybe I ought to check out an Istanbul Hi Hat, I remember playing on a kit with one 13" Hat and that little sucker still sounded heavy and very "metallic" - like it definitely.

    I don't really like the use of samples - triggered or Soundreplacer - sometimes if there's no other chance or if I aim for an intentional "machine-like" sound I will use it, but it sounds pretty awfull on snare rolls and that sort of stuff, even if blended with the original track.

    Best,

    Markus
     
  15. planet red

    planet red Active Member

    one thing i do to minimize bleed even though it sounds funny is by using a pop filter right behind the snare mic with a really thick beanie or stocking type hat over it and it works great. Its easy because pop filters are good at moving around and getting into the right position and as long as you put it RIGHT behind the snare mic works great even thought its small.
     
  16. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    Originally posted by Jon Best:
    I would buy a good sounding set of 13" hihats for managing the bleed.


    EV408- kind of a better SM57, but different...



    I have to disagree with the notion of 13" hats being easier to manage to bleed from. 13" tend to stick out of a mix, or a drum-set in general to my ears. I think that is why a lot of drummers like them. I really like 15" hats. I think they blend better and have a warmer sound.

    I also have used a 408 on snare, but forgot about doing it. It sounds good and is very east to position.

    To the original poster:

    Try to utilize the snare sound in the overheads more. It's a more natural sound. Also think about where you put the drums in your room. Try facing them a different direction, or farther, or closer to the wall etc...
     

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