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snare VS OH

Discussion in 'Drums' started by niclaus, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member


    i do have to mix this project where the OH tracks are really lacking snare...
    Well, there is none of it in there...
    The problem is i can't get the snare to fit with the rest, it's always in front of everything...

    I tried EQs, comp, reverb,... but it still up infront of everything...

    Has anybody ever dealt with that kind of problem???

    thanks for your help.

  2. TheFraz

    TheFraz Active Member

    my guess is that you did not try the right things with EQ comp and reverb
  3. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    Well, thanks!!!
  4. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Yeah, right...
    All of the signal processing in the world isn't going to fix it in the mix. For starters, EQ'ing the frequency band that the snare's tone lies in will make the cymbals sound like trash can lids. And adding compression to the overheads will cause the cymbals to "hang" like a Carlos Santana solo. Adding reverb? To overheads? Talk about mud!
    Can you go back and re-track the kit? Whoever recorded it (not you?) obviously didn't treat this kit as a SINGLE instrument, played by a SINGLE player. And didn't have the monitoring environment to make the right decisions on mic technique before commiting the sound "to tape". Or disc, whatever the media.
    Is the snare part simple enough to be "flown in" by overdubbing or a sample?
  5. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    Well, yeah, i know that, but i'm not the one who did the tracking so there's not much i can do about that...
    Ain't there any trick to help me with that...???
  6. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    I edited my original reply. SOMETIMES you can fudge it with a sample played over the snare part, if the part is simple enough. That's a big IF.
    You can TRY having the drummer play the snare parts over and "fly " that in. I have had very little luck with that unless the part was a simple part played by a skilled drummer.
  7. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    Thanks for your answer...

    But no there is no way of redubbing it since it's a pretty tricky part, plus the drummer is not THAT skilled, and will never be able to do it again...

    "All of the signal processing in the world isn't going to fix it in the mix."

    Well, that's what i think, but i wandered if there could be a trick to make things better... Well, i guess i will have to live with that then...

    i guess that is why we have that saying " $*^t IN, well, $*^t OUT"... No miracles...

    Thank you so much anyway...
  8. mobilelab

    mobilelab Active Member

    Hey niclaus, a few questions. How many tracks do you have of drums total? Just the OH? or OH and snare? or a bunch of mics? The more we know the more we can help.
  9. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    well, i do have a whole bunch of tracks...
    OH, Snare (2), kick (2), tom-toms, HH,...
  10. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    So you have a lousy sounding snare drum track? And it's actually 2 separate tracks? Top & bottom? And you don't hear any snare drum in any of the other drum microphones including overheads? WTF?

    No problem. There's plenty of ways to fix this. I need tohear this so, can you post a mix or separate tracks?

    None of the other suggestions are appropriate and certainly won't help to fix your abortion. This is where experience is necessarily. And I'm talking phase flipping, noise generation & gating, side chained selective dynamics. The right reverb algorithms and voilĂ ! Oh yeah, some equalization to taste.

    Mixing in analog or digital or both?

    Doing it all
    Ms. Remy Ann David
  11. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    I'm with Remy, post an example.
    Your statement that there isn't any snare in the other mics is just too weird.

    If possible, post an example of all the drums, all drums with snare mics muted, and one of just overheads.
  12. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    well, you got it right... The different tracks are close mics so you don't have that much snare in there...

    I'll try to post some sample as soon as possible, but i'm away right now so it should take a cuple of days before i can put a hand on the disk...

    Phase fipping??Noise generation?? What would you do there? Can you explain a little bit??

    Anyway thanks for your help, and again, i'll post some samples ass soon as possible...
  13. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Well, first off, is it always up front if you mute the snare tracks?

    I realize that sounds like a dumb question, but until we get to hear some of it I can't tell you whether you have an EQ issue, a phase problem, or if simply moving the track a few ms will help...

    BTW, what are you recording to?
  14. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    see, if i mute it, well, there is not so much left of it...

    Can you explain your phase flipping thing idea??

    Again, i really appreciate and post samples as soon as i can...
  15. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    BTW, what are you recording to?

    Tape? Software?

    I'll tell you about phase flipping if you'll answer my question.
  16. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    I think the drum kit was recorded through a digi002, while i'm using a ProTools HD...!!!
  17. bent

    bent No Bad Vibes! Well-Known Member

    Phase simplified:


    If you have mics that are out of phase, like the example on the right, you've gotta flip one of the two (or more) to get them to work together as shown on the left.

    In some cases it's preferable to move a track forward in time a few milliseconds to make something stand out.

    That said, I don't think your problem lies there.

    How long have you been pushin' the faders?
  18. mobilelab

    mobilelab Active Member

    1. Remy was right. Not a lot of useful information posted ahead of her.
    2. I would bus all drum tracks together and put a phase meter on that track.
    3. Try different combinations of the tracks you have. Move them around(pan). Go with the setup that has the best phase relationship. This will be the best sounding choice, probably.
    4. Remy is very wise. If she refutes anything I've said, she's right.
    5. Sweet graphic, bent!
  19. niclaus

    niclaus Active Member

    hey guys,

    thanks for those usefull infos... I'll sure try them out as soon as i can...

    other than that, it's tree in the morning here, and i just woke up with an isea. Tell me what you think...

    I thought that maybe, after proper "rephasing" of the two OH mics, i could use a MS encoding to try and get the snare and kick up, even if this means narrowing the stereo...!!!

    Well, it would mean proper use of EQs and comps to get something good, but i thought it could be something to try out...
  20. unsonic

    unsonic Active Member

    The snare tends to overwhelm the overhead microphones, so try with a very fast-acting peak limiter on the overhead to keep the snare drum from doing that.

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