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Soffit mounting nearfields?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by took-the-red-pill, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    After much reading here and elsewhere I will most likely be getting a pair of Event TR8's for my home studio. The cheaper ones($600 CAN), not the professional model($1200CAN).

    Anyway, it is my intention to soffit mount them. In my studio that would place them 7 feet apart. This of course has me 7 feet from each of them to form the equallateral triangle.

    My understanding is that these are a nearfield monitor, so are there any issues of which I should be aware using them at said distance?


    Other potentially relevant info:

    -Mid or farfield monitors are out for me, due to budget, I'll be using only the one set.
    -Control room/studio-15'3" X 22'3", 10' vaulted ceiling.
    -The room will be treated, trapped, skewed walls, etc.
    -I will likely have a set of portable absorbtion that will come in to play when mixing, to deaden the environment a bit.


    Many thanks
    Keith
     
  2. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    small rooms and high ceilings
    not easy
    I love soffit mounted speakers but these little units and small rooms just don't seem to add up to much
    experiment with foam in the port as it will make for a soggy port
    without proper measuring gear and technique it can all be a bit of hit and miss

    I'm about to rebuild my room ... AGAIN
    basic problem is that it's just too small.
    :(

    happywiththatedit.jpg

    this picture was such a long time ago
    just after removing the ADATs and installing the MixPlus system ... PT4.0/4.3 era
     
  3. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    The unimpeded monitor location is cherry Kev. For as long as I can remember, I have not had anything in front of the monitors that cause adverse comb filtering or any obstructional devices.

    The best advice is to try to keep the monitor area as clean as possible..aerodynamically speaking. Sound does travel at Mach 1..and aerodynamics plays a huge role.
     
  4. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Nearfields in a soffitt....hmmmm...It could work...I'm with Kev as well as Bill on this one...Without dynamic measuring devices at your disposal its going to be hit and miss. Monitors MUST be unimpeded without question. Comb filtering is your enemy at all times.

    My room is quite small also. I mix and track with nearfields. I have a sub. I love my Genelecs and this is not what the discussion is about.....what I'm saying, is a nearfield, to me, is all about listening at relatively low volume and getting a very detailed idea of what is going on inside of your mix.

    In my last pro room, we had soffitt mounted Urie 803's and while this was also a fairly small room it was sonically good and could handle the spl's generated by these things with the big Crown's driving them. The rockers loved em...but I still used the nearfields to flesh out the tones at a low volume. I had AR15's and Yamamas NS10's plus the horrortones.

    The problem I would have with a soffitt mount for nearfields is are they going to lose their focus at such a distance and disrupt your stereo imaging.

    just a thought.
     
  5. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    I am pretty convinced that these are the distances that work best...for me anyway..

    Nearfield 24" to 2 meters.
    Midfield 2.5 meters to 4.0 meters
    Studio monitoring (not control room) >3 meters.

    Some speakers actually work well at greater variances but every loudspeaker made has a limited distance sweet spot. This sweet spot with distance is limited via dynamic lineararity for the entire bandpass. Hence, a 3 dB increment at 55Hz should also be very close to 3dB at any other frequency within the loudspeakers accurate bandpass.

    As we know...the room itself will really hash up the "distance sweetspot" so the distance that your monitors in your room...have the most linear bandpass power translation is the distance you should monitor.



    ...whispers below....
    (Some speakers are not linear at any distance in power bandwidth.)
     
  6. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    This could become a 'rant'....Just so Bill doesnt get going too hard on 'certain' manufacturers, lets just say that 'most' loudspeakers listed as Studio Monitors arent really all that accurate but for the sake of budget will have to do at this point. Agreed?


    And you know I agree with you...

    I thought about it a bit and another thing I would question about the soffitt mounting of a nearfield is the damping that could occur....Maybe this is the 'soggy' sound Kev was referring too???eh

    Putting a 'box' around a box that is already struggling to reproduce something in the lower registers seems to be defeating the purpose. Build a nice set of stands and get em the heck away from the wall or the corner.
     
  7. audiowkstation

    audiowkstation Active Member

    Baffle diffraction issues..

    I noticed when I had the BBSM 10's and used to keep up with Westlake..that they do have a device called a "muff" that surrounds 3 sides of the front baffle to cut back on baffle diffraction effects. These things are very effective..although they have been designed around their speakers. I personally feel that whenever you flush mount a speaker system in a soffit, the surface of the outer edges usually need to have some absorbtive material applied. Sound channels II acoustic material from acoustics first dot com is very effective in reducing unwanted diffraction problems..but as always, ymmv and each room and loudspeaker pair is different.
    DD, you know we agree on just about everything. One reason I get firm in some of my writings is because their are people who visit my posts and paste them all over the web..out of context and even rearranging the words and flat out slander.They get their kicks from this so I want to let my posts be perfectly clear..so when the actual source shows up years down the road, the truth will come out. When others take my writings, copy them and paste them with "modifications" added in and the point erased, it makes THEM out to be the culpret, not me. ;)

    Thank goodness no one at RO does this.
     
  8. CharlesDayton

    CharlesDayton Active Member

    Hey Kev,
    I see in your pic Event 20/20s. Are they considered near or mid field monitors?
     
  9. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Many thanks gents. Disaster averted once again.

    Okay, so what I am hearing is that the distance I am suggesting is indeed too far for 'nearfield' monitors. That's cool. I shall scrap the plan and have them away from the wall on stands or some such.

    A tip of the old chapeau in your collective directions

    Any other advice, based on my particular situation? Such as a good way to determine distance from the back wall, and a good distance between monitors?

    Keith

    Wow, 3775 cubic feet is too small Kev? Bummer. I thought that was actually not too bad for size. Oh well, we do what we can.
     
  10. took-the-red-pill

    took-the-red-pill Active Member

    Many thanks gents. Disaster averted once again.

    Okay, so what I am hearing is that the distance I am suggesting is indeed too far for 'nearfield' monitors. That's cool. I shall scrap the plan and have them away from the wall on stands or some such.

    A tip of the old chapeau in your collective directions

    Any other advice, based on my particular situation? Such as a good way to determine distance from the back wall, or any other often overlooked detail on this topic?

    I'm also guessing one would install LF absorbtion behind the monitors to catch the bass frequencies shooting out of the back of the cabinets?

    Wow, 3775 cubic feet is too small Kev? Bummer. I thought that was actually not too bad for size. Oh well, I'll have to do the best I can with that I guess...

    Keith
     
  11. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

    I'm not at home at the moment but I'd swear the manual has "nearfield" on the front. Either way I have them set up as nearfields and absolutely love them.
     
  12. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    :shock:
    every thing in my room is near
    it's just too small
    the best I can do in there, when recording, is rely on experience
    and
    edit ... edit is good

    " Control room/studio-15'3" X 22'3", 10' vaulted ceiling. "
    so about a car and a half ... not quite a double garage
    probably not too small but I would not consider it big
    ... but I do wish I had that much room to work with.

    I think you can look to true close monitoring but probably not long throw so the Mid field in a soffit will need some skill to set up.
    If you are serious I think some consultation with an expert is a good thing.
    They need to come to your place with the equipment.

    It all comes down to budgets and your expectations
    tread carefully
    8)
     

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