1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.


Discussion in 'Recording' started by hueseph, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Opinions vary so widely on this subject. I don't like pirates but how will this affect the rest of the online community? I will have to admit that I've had little time to educate myself on the bill.

    RME User Forum / UFX vs ADI-8 QS
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Re online community: Might as well start a conversation, what do you mean?

    Here's whats going on over at Indaba Music:
  3. EricIndecisive

    EricIndecisive Active Member

    This bill is much less about piracy than it is the federal government trying to control our freedom. Just thinking about it makes me angry. I believe there is a revolution coming, at least in this country, so instead of arguing I'm just going to try and prepare for myself. Look at all the signs... endless wars.. diminishing economy.. socialist tendencies.. controlled media.. a corrupt and ever-growing government.. and now censorship. It's straight out of the book 1984.

    Recently it seems that many people don't mind waiving their freedoms, 4th amendment (well I'M not doing anything wrong), 2nd amendment (well I don't need a gun!). But now that it is going to affect something that their daily lives revolve around, people are ready to wake up. I truly believe that the day is coming when we will be reminded why all of those amendments were put there in the first place.

    GAH! Now I'm angry again. I'm going to sell some more things on ebay so I can buy some bullets.
  4. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Fortunately, it looks like people are backing off on this. This was a very bad bill at the start and it has only gotten marginally better as the protests have mounted. Congress has been lazy on this from the start and let Hollywood (fronted by sleazebag excongresscritter Chris Dodd) write the bill. (Congresscritters can't even be bothered to learn what DNS means.) In the bill, the government is given huge power to shut down web sites with little or no due process - at one point complaints from industry compelled them to shut down sites. SOPA and PIPA are terrible bills. Drive a stake through their hearts and start from scratch.
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

  6. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Well, certainly there's reason to oppose the bill but wouldn't it be great if there was some way to hold into account web sites that encourage piracy? Piracy specifically. Why can't they treat it like any other crime? Make an arrest, hold a trial and decide based on the evidence. It seems simple enough but I imagine, difficult to implement. There's also the fact that most of these pirates are far more tech saavy than the people who want to enforce rules.

    On another note, I think it would be great if people would just learn to appreciate and respect the artists and content creators. It's a terrible shame that we live in world of instant gratification. Even more shameful that conscience is in so short of supply. If only people thought about the efforts of one sharing their talent.
  7. Space

    Space Well-Known Member

    If American government can police the Internet, what does that mean?
  8. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Very good point. Let's just step back from that one.
  9. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    I think most would agree something needs to be done to protect copyrighted material from blatant theft, but nobody wants to be bothered to enforce the laws that are already on the books.

    No law is going to make everyone happy, but I think I'd rather have no law than either of these two laws being proposed. I agree with Bob, as it stands it's way too heavy-handed and gives too broad a power to a few to judge without due process. But again, nobody will want to foot the bill for due process.

    Unfortunately, crooks will find a loophole or workaround. (Everybody else on the "Do Not Call List"? - Everybody else still getting 20 illegal robocalls/month from telemarketers?)
  10. Mo Facta

    Mo Facta Active Member

    The fact of the matter is that if we weren't currently slaves to a monetary-based system and we all worked for the good of mankind, all services, products and intellectual property would be free.

    Our world is drunk on profit and we are slaves to it's peddlers.

    Cheers :)
  11. Red Mastering

    Red Mastering Active Member

    fascism state is very near....
    it has nothing to do with piracy fight,
    it's simply another law act to take your freedom,
    Internet is working against ruling cabal and they don't like people being informed
    I expected it time ago
  12. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    And if the due process is necessary because of a failed business model we shouldn't have to. If I decide to open a store with no cashiers that depends on the honor system to have everyone pay I should not be able to deputize the police force to stop people from stealing. We shouldn't have to foot the bill for bringing the "good old days" back to the film and recording industry no matter how many politicians they bribe.
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member

    In the last 40 sessions, or so, of congress, we have seen more legislation that attacks human rights and gives those rights to the government and to corporations. Some on purpose, some through misguided ineptitude. This piece of legislation is purely another assault.

    I do not advocate theft, unfair use or non-compensation for use of copyrighted/intellectual property. No one likes a thief, and there must be accountability for said theft. But HR 3261 is NOT a viable solution from the way I read it.

    When legislation removes any due process, and confiscates personal property under the pretense of suspicion, it's not a good law. It is actually a means of suppression of free speech.

    As written, the law is so absolutely vague and poorly written, that no proof of violation is actually needed to trigger the government into action to protect a copyright claimant.

    Literally, if I, as an artist, am signed to a label or other distribution contract, put my music on my own website, and the music is detected as being "owned", even in part, by a distributor, they could simply inform the government that there is illegal use - wrongly obviously, and the government has "no choice" but to block my website and confiscate all the materials, block access to it, and I, the legal copyright holder, have absolutely no recourse in getting my website, my own copyrighted material, nor any intellectual property I may own on that domain, back. There is recourse provisioning in the bill. However, this recourse has severely limited windows and no defined actual due process procedure. Effectively holding the claimant of violation in the driver seat indefinitely... thereby reversing innocence until proved guilty.

    The same holds true for any critics, reviewer, media outlet, etc, that may actually promote music, media or other copyrighted material. - e.g. If a band has a fan, former band member, disgruntled/ex-spouse... all they have to do is complain of illegal use and BAM... you're out of business. The payed providers are held accountable under whistle blower laws already on the books.

    If you accidentally sign a poorly written distribution contract that limits your distribution, said limiting distributor can shut you down, and your other legally authorized distributors.

    It's a worthless piece of documentation as far as the business of media and copyright/intellectual property right use is concerned.... However, it's a very handy piece of legislation for the controlling of free speech and general quashing of the public education of what it's government and corporations (who have more rights than people) are doing.

    Due process and presumption of innocence are founding principles of the constitution of the United States. Removing these rights is an unacceptable turn for the government of this country and must be stopped.

    There is a way to legislate the wrongful use of copyrighted/IP, but it's far too tricky to do without completely reexamining/rewriting the existing legislation... and that won't happen given the power of corporations and their influence peddling minions.

    The public education system is one place to start. We teach children the basic principles of law in the primary and secondary levels. Why are we not simply including the fact that theft is wrong? Our social indoctrination program in the public education system is the perfect place to start.
  14. dvdhawk

    dvdhawk Well-Known Member

    I would agree in principle, but that education starts at home. I wouldn't want to rely on the school to teach my kids morality any more than I want Washington to legislate common sense. My kids learned right from wrong at home. They got their values here and whatever information they learned at school was all bonus.

    Online or in the real world, people young and old, fail to see it as theft. They think, "if I can find it for free without ever leaving my house - why shouldn't I take it?"

    One sign we knew we'd achieved a certain level of success was the day we're sitting at a bar that has some of our CDs on display for sale - and while Dude#1 is holding a CD in his hand considering the purchase, Dude#2 assures Dude#1 "it's good" and then 2 seconds later says, "I'll burn you a copy." - right in front of us. I'm sure in his mind before he opened his mouth he's thinking, 'the guys in the band will surely appreciate my favorable review'. But before he could shut his mouth again, he'd finished the sentence the way he probably had a hundred times 'sharing' other people's music too - if it even occurred to him at all that he'd just picked our pocket.

    And I certainly agree that lobbyists that represent big money will always stack the deck in their favor with the full cooperation of the elected officials. Only solution come November - No Incumbent Left Behind - none - zero.
  15. BobRogers

    BobRogers Well-Known Member

    Megan Mcardle has a good post on file sharing as stealing. She brings up a point that I had not thought of: comparing file sharing to stealing books from a book store (the book store is going to return some of the books, so they aren't hurt by the theft, etc.) She also bring up another point that I've been harping on for a long time: file sharing is more like trespassing than theft. The problem with that comparison is that a lot of people trespass without any feeling of guilt.
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Well-Known Member


    My comment was half made with tongue firmly planted in cheek... in that, the education system does not allow/approve of children to perpetrate acts of violence on other students or teachers, nor does it approve of cheating... and while yes, I agree that morality starts at home, the essential basics of society's norms are indeed taught within the confines of the classroom. Maybe it should include the basic review of civility and the laws which govern it.

    There used to be a subject that was taught in all the public schools... it was called civics. In these classes, you learned of the reasoning of the courts and the works of the judiciary, the role of parliamentary procedure, the role of laws and the common sense approach to living in a society based upon trust. The primary focus on business revolved around civic responsibility before profit. Often, individual state legislation was reviewed and how the process of government was set forth for each state, and the federal government.

    To that end, I fail to see a conflict where teaching common law is concerned. It's not like this would be akin to mandating a state recognized religion. It's just a reinforcement of each citizen knowing that there are laws which exist for the common good of society.
  17. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

  18. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Wow, Thanks for sharing this Hue, I understand it a lot more now. This is very complicated. I'm torn between so much here. We all know why the music industry has changed so much. Is it a bad thing or good that still remains to be seen. Right now its still cripled but its also because its in a transition.

    I know I'm sick of the few controlling the mass. Thats really criminal isn't it or is it? I mean, controlling people but we always go to far don't we. But what about all our creative rights being transmitted and out of control. But I do believe the way we made money in this business is only being reshaped.

    If we kill the interenet, the world will go definitely nuts and deeper underground. And we will find another path to travel in it.
    It makes me wonder what the real reason is behind all this.

    Very interesting times indeed.
  19. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Here's something more to give perspective. Via: Bob Lefsetz

  20. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    There is a new Rennaisance occurring as we live. I don't know how we can take advantage of it but I want to find the way. The person and persons who unlock this will change the game for everyone. I don't think anyone will be making fortunes from this. It may very well even the playing ground though. That is something I could look forward to.

Share This Page