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Spacially Separating Instruments

Discussion in 'Recording' started by nmccamy, Aug 24, 2001.

  1. nmccamy

    nmccamy Guest

    I want to be able to spacially arrange instruments in a bigger stereo field.
    On many commercial recordings I listen to with headphones, instruments seem to be hovering over my head, or be playing way out there. How are these effects achieved? I know reverb and chorus can help with this.

    I have a Behringer Modulizer and it allows you to set up a stereo image and another for 3D image, but the psychoacoustics involved sound unnatural, almost like I have a clogged ear on one side. How can I attain more natural spacial separation?
     
  2. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    There are some phase tricks to create this type of imaging using delays or specially designed spatial enhancers. The ear is very sensetive to minute changes in phase, and it often takes less drastic settings to trick them than you'd think. I've never heard the Behringer piece. Desper and Roland used to make this type of unit, but I'm not sure if either one are still being made.

    My preferred method for getting such a wide field on a particular instrument is to mic it in stereo to begin with. If all you have is a mono track to work with (and don't have any extra delays or spatial effects) you could try feeding the signal into a speaker in a room and stereo mic that.
     
  3. tubedude

    tubedude Active Member

    Try stereo mic'ing and then running it through a Waves S1 and rotating the sound where you want it. Try the MS mode too, since the S1 has a decoder also.
     
  4. nmccamy

    nmccamy Guest

    All of my tracks are stereo.

    What is a Waves S1? Is this a product?
     
  5. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    Where are you having your problems? With the drums? With a stereo mic'ed guitar? Please be more specific.

    Mixerman
     
  6. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    The waves product is a protools plug in. I endorse Behringer gear & LOVE using the EDISON spatializer for excactly what you're talking about. Another simple trick, is on stereo tracks, run a delay (0 feedback) on 1 side with 0-15 ms delay. It will eff up your phase a lot, so be careful & check your material in mono. Another protools solution is the desper spatializer which is MUCH CHEAPER than the box), but you have to have a vintage farm to run it.
     
  7. RNorman

    RNorman Active Member

    Originally posted by nm:
    I want to be able to spacially arrange instruments in a bigger stereo field.
    On many commercial recordings I listen to with headphones, instruments seem to be hovering over my head, or be playing way out there. How are these effects achieved? I know reverb and chorus can help with this.

    I have a Behringer Modulizer and it allows you to set up a stereo image and another for 3D image, but the psychoacoustics involved sound unnatural, almost like I have a clogged ear on one side. How can I attain more natural spacial separation?


    Read Mixerman's post on what encompasses the spacial field we work within. A lot of it isn't something that you add later, but do during.

    Also, consider a statement that George Massenburg said about how one element could be 60 dB down from another non-masking element and still be totally audible. This is somewhat discussed in Mixerman's "article".

    Then read Mix's diatribe on frequencies and the use of EQ. It's not in my notes as to whether it's here or on Harvey's forum, but you can find it via a google.com search of RAP. It's worth the time to research and it goes hand in hand with your question.

    Also, don't take what you hear in headphones and a commercially released mix as something you're going to accomplish listening to headphones while you're mixing. That's another thread all on it's own.
     
  8. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    Roger,

    I was going to wait, but this is the second reference made to this article, so I'll put it up under a new header.

    Mixerman
     
  9. RNorman

    RNorman Active Member

    Originally posted by Mixerman:
    Roger,

    I was going to wait, but this is the second reference made to this article, so I'll put it up under a new header.

    Mixerman


    Hey, good stuff is good stuff. And it's all so inter-related that I'm compiling a 3 ring notebook of just your articles. And as opposed to others have suggested, I'm doing it on paper because I can hand it to clients/producer wannabes (meaning read it myself) as reference material. It's taken me my entire life learning to recognize good advice. I don't want to lose it now! <g>
     
  10. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    Jeez Rog, I wasn't that serious about it! Go ahead and print out every email you receive if you want; won't buise my nuts any. :D :p
     

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