Stand alone cd burner question.

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by eddies880, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    If I have a 16 bit stand alone cd burner,and a 24 bit stand alone cd burner,will I get better sound resalution form the 24 bit?.
    My input signal would be analog.
     
  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Yes. The 24 bit will have more resolution. Which two burners are you talking about?
     
  3. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    I have an older Philips 765,that,if Im not mistaken,is 16 bit.
    The Philips has to be at least 8 yrs old.
    Im currently looking into upgrading to a HHB CDR 830 24 bit.
    While I have you here Michael,I have a couple of questions pertaining to stand alone cd burners,if you wouldnt mind.
    From what I understand,if the cd burner has a 24 bit analog to digital converter,willl you get a better sound?
    If so,then the cd burner that has a 16 bit,has less ability to recreat what you hear during mastering?
    So-many questions--so little time.
     
  4. ZZTop

    ZZTop Guest

    I thought all CD's get burned at 16bit res, even on commercial CD's?
    I know you can burn at a higher resolution, but I'm saying if you went to the store and bought the new "whatever" album by "whomever" it is still 16bit. Is this correct?
     
  5. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    I'm confused about this topic as well...... Looking at the specs for the HHB CDR 830 24 bit machine states that it's got a higher AD sampling rate, which is always good. Still, it's got to be dithered down to 16/44 for the final Red Book CD.

    Sony has what's called Super Bit-mapping for their stand alone recorders. They had it in some of their better DAT machines, and they have it now on most of their stand-alone CD recorders, even the prosumer stuff. AFAIK, it's dithering added to the conversion process, allowing it do handle the quieter passages more accurately, greater overall dynamic range, and so on. The idea, I believe, is lots of oversampling and higher bit rate going on at the A-D process, then processing it properly (all on the fly), as the CD is being written to 16/44 with a provable improvement in sound over systems that don't have it.

    Maybe that's what the HHB has, or something similar?
     
  6. hociman

    hociman Active Member

    Sony Super Bitmapping

    Sony Super Bitmapping (SBM) is a fixed-level dither generator that uses noise with a fixed spectral response. SBM1 noise shaping is based on equi-loudness contours and utilizes a 12 order FIR filter for noise shaping. SBM2 uses the same equi-loudness contour as SBM1 in addition to a simultaneous masking calculation. The audio signal is converted into critical bands (in 512 sample blocks), convolved with a narrow-band critical band masking curve, and then converted to linear frequency. The determination of
    which signal to use for the dither, either the equi-loudness shaped noise
    or the noise derived from the simultaneous masking calculation, is based
    on the power of the input audio. If the power of the input audio is low, the
    equi-loudness noise is used. As the power of the input audio increases, a
    linear combination of the equi-loudness shaped noise and the simultaneous masking calculated noise is used, up to a point where only the simultaneous masking calculated noise is used for dither.
     
  7. hociman

    hociman Active Member

    Sony Super Bitmapping

    Deleted - multiple posting
     
  8. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Jonathon; that's a great summation of what it is and how it works. (I guess oversampling isn't involved then....it's been a long time since I read up on what's actually involved. Good to read all this again!)

    Still, what about this HHB burner, eh?
     
  9. hociman

    hociman Active Member

    HHB

    The studio I work at (post production) has two (2) of the HHB CDR 830 BurnIT Plus models. Is all of this discussion about that model, or a recent revision of it (our units are two years old).
     
  10. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I asked about the burners because units like the masterlink can burn 24bit discs, but these aren't redbook discs. the burners that you mentioned burn at 16 bit if they are burning redbook CD's. Now if there is processing that can be done (i'm not sure about the HHB) then it's probably done in the 24 bit domain before it's dithered down to 16bit. But being that the phillips is an old unit and the HHB is newer and geared towards studio use, I'd put my money on the HHB to give a better sound. there is probably also a sonic reason why the HHB A/D's convert at 24bit. could be they bought the A/D's from someone or the 24bit design lends itself to a better sounding capture. Then they just dither to 16bit.
     
  11. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    Re: HHB

    Yes,Im interested purchasing an 830,only if the sound it records,is better than my older Philips 765
     
  12. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    So,let me get this straight (as easy as possible)when the HHB recieves the analog signal,then converts it to digital at 24 bit,then when its ready to burn to cd,it dithers down to 16 bit due to the fact that 90% of the consumer,have 16 bit cd players?
     
  13. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I'm not familiar with the HHB, but it most likely converts the analog signal to 24bit and dithers down to 16 bit while it's burning. devices like the masterlink record the audio to a hard drive and then when you are ready to burn, converts it to 16 bit. CD audio is all at 16 bits. The only consumer formats that have more resolution are DVD-A, SACD, DVD-V.
     
  14. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    I wouldnt mind getting one,if I knew for a fact that it reproduces the signals with better sounf than my older Philips.
    Mike--------another question,whats youre opinion on JBL studio monitors model # LSR4326P with the room control mode feature?
     
  15. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't own either burners but I would bet the HHB sounds better.

    I have only heard the LSR JBL's in 5.1 and I thought they sounded pretty good, but that was a quick listen in a noisey environment and they had a sub and I wasn't familiar with the material.

    Maybe someone else has a better opinion on them.
     
  16. Reggie

    Reggie Well-Known Member

    Kinda what I was figuring. I think it just has the capability to ACCEPT a 24-bit digital signal and dither it internally to 16-bit; as well as the ability to SRC from 32K-48K. I don't think it records anything at 24-bit at any point.
    I would also imagine that the HHB sound better than the Phillips, and you will also be able to use standard data CDR's (like Taiyo Yuden) on the HHB, instead of being restricted to "Music/Audio" CDRs.
     
  17. eddies880

    eddies880 Guest

    Thanks for the info Michael.
     

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