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step one?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by downflow, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. downflow

    downflow Guest

    Hey guys
    Scenario: I am in a rock band. Two vocals/guitarists, bass, and six piece Pearl Export Select drums. I have one 14' X 14' X 8' square room, carpet over wood floor, some baffles on the wall. I have a Nady drum mic kit with a mic for each tom, a 57 for the snare, two over- heads. I have a '58, (another)'57, and a shure bg 4.1 for vocals or acoustic guitars. I am recording to a fostex vf-160. No mics are placed and I have no idea where to begin. I hope this is not too much info. Help please? I am taking notes (for lack of experience).
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    downflow said;
    Ewwww... can you say "standing wave"?
    Square rooms are a major no-no!!! You really should do something to address this issue first.
    Nady mics? IMO again, ewwwwww. Oh well, work with what you have.

    "Kurts drum recording primer"

    Is there a hole in the front of the kick? If so place the kick mic inside the drum about 3/4 of the way in . Aim the mic where the batter strikes the head but at a slight angle away from the snare drum. This is to minimize bleed from the snare through the drum head. For kick eq I usually start with some boost @ 80Hz. for balls, some cut @ 180Hz. to get it out of the way of the bass guitar and a little boost @ 5kHz for some "tick" or "snap".

    Place the snare mic at the rim of the snare slightly above and aimed at the center of the snare. Try to place the snare mic so it is not aimed at the hat if at all possible. If the rear of the mic can be placed so it is pointed at the hat, that is best. Idea here is to get as much rejection of the hat in the snare track…. Or to save a track experiment with placing the mic so it picks up both snare and hat. This is “old school” ….. downside, what ever you do to the snare is done to the hat too and vice versa. Make sure you have what you want before you hit record.

    Mic the toms pretty much in the same way as I described for the snare but don’t worry about the hat thing. EQ as I described for the kick.

    Overheads placed over the kit, left and right. Take a rough measurement of the distance from each mic to the snare. This should be equal if at all possible to locate the snare in the center of the stereo spread of the overheads. If you wish, you may mic the hat too. A small diaphragm condenser is usually best for this but a 57 may be used in a pinch. Try to place the hat mic so spill from the snare is minimized. I like placing a hat mic above the hat pointed directly down on it from the far side of the hat in relation to the snare.

    I like recording drums to individual tracks when ever possible, kick, snare, hi rack tom, low rack tom, floor tom, hat, overhead left and right. That’s 9 tracks… one more than you have. You may if you wish sum the toms to a pair. That will make for 7 tracks. Perhaps not enough still if you want to record bass and guitars. Here’s where it can get sticky. In the days of 16 tracks drums were usually recorded to four tracks. Kick, Snare, and a stereo pair for toms, overheads and hat. Your sub mix will need to be perfect and it is doubtful you will get it right on the first try. What sounds good when you record it will be wrong by the time you overdub other elements. This is where experience comes into play. You just need to do it a bunch of times until the results are what you want. Hope that helps…. Fats
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
    Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  3. downflow

    downflow Guest

    Fats
    What are some low budget ideas for addressing the problems in the room? Egg cartons, egg shape foam? It also has three old windows; cover them? Any suggestions on tools for cutting a hole in the drum head? Would it be worth it to buy a $300 converter to be able to record 16 track simultaneous?
    Andy
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Andy,
    The problem is you have square room. 14'x14'.... that's not good. Waves bounce back and forth at the same rate between the two sets of walls. BOING! I know the space is small but the first thing to do is shorten up one of these dimensions to like, 11 feet or less. If you are totally unwilling to do that, then put up a ton (I mean a ton ) of four inch acoustical foam. Check this link. http://www.foambymail.com .. This is the cheapest place I have found so far for foam. Use the for inch stuff and a bunch of the corner traps. Now this room will be really dead ...dead .... dead! There won't be much high end but IMO that is the only way to make it useable. You might go over to the acoustics forum and ask Ethan Winer about this. He is the resident acoustics expert here at RO. I hope that helps some..... Fats
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
    Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. Kingpin

    Kingpin Guest

    I agree with cedar, make the room completely dead. and also make sure not to place the drums directly in the center of the room. Try and have them facing a corner.
     
  6. downflow

    downflow Guest

    Fats
    Do you recommend any certain shapes of foam from the site? Complete coverage of the wall 2" or 4" deep, or leave some reflective surfaces? Do they make corners? I do have some fiberglass 4' X 4' X 2" baffles also. Also, how do you feel about the rigid fiberglass board that Ethan suggests? Is it competitive pricewise with the foam you suggested? Do you know if it will function as well? What do you suggest for the low frequency waves? Thanks for the posts guys. Sorry for all the questions, suffice it to say, I have a thirst for knowledge. Thanks again.
    Andy
     
  7. downflow

    downflow Guest

    Kingpin
    As in the drummer facing the corner? I will try it. That will probably help a lot (and make my drummer mad :p ). I guess the idea is most of the sound comes out of the front of the kit? Is there an easy (or cheap)way to isolate drums and/or vocals? Thanks
    Andy
     
  8. Kingpin

    Kingpin Guest

    Its has more to do with how the waves are bouncing around the room and returning to the mics than having to do with where the sound comes out of the kit. Deadening the room will make this not as much of an issue though.
     

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