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Stereo/Mono Guitar Rig Routing Question

Discussion in 'Guitars' started by Boltino, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    I have a guitar rig that I use in various situations. It consists of a Pod Pro with a Lexicon MPX1 in the effects loop. I use this rig in both stereo and mono applications. It is set up for stereo, but I'd like a way to sum the outputs of the Pod for use in mono (into the pwr amp in of a tube combo). I'm hoping for some input on the following options:

    1) ART or Rolls passive mixer - I'm afraid that these boxes are just too cheap and will destroy the signal on the way out.

    2) Morley A/B/Y Box - Seems like it would work, but I'm not sure about the impedence of the signal coming out of the box into the power amp in.

    3) Dual TS to TS Y cable - Seems like there would be impedence problems with this option, but I'm not sure.

    4) Small powered Mackie or Yamaha mixer - I was hoping for a simpler, passive solution, but if this is what I need to do, so be it.


    To clarify, the device would be used to combine the stereo output in to one mono signal before it goes into the power amp in on my tube combo amp. This way I don't end up with evey other note from ping pond delays, 1/2 of a chorus signal, etc. Thanks for your time and any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Wes
     
  2. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Dumb question, but doesn't the POD have one of the "stereo" outputs (Left, I think) that defaults to mono when only that output jack has a plug inserted into it? I know my POD does.
    Your question about the Rolls/ART passive mixers is valid-stay clear of them both. If you want to use a small mixer, stick with a Mackie (1202VLZ is a good choice). Using 'Y' cords will compromise the signal quality do to phase issues, as well as signal loading.
     
  3. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    Thanks for the reply moonbaby. Not a dumb question at all. From the tests that I ran, it seemed like the Pod ran in mono when just using the left/mono jack, but it didn't seem to sum the effects loop signal into the left channel. I may be wrong. I'll set up a pan sweep on the lexicon and try it when I get home. I tried it so many different ways (I was switching amps around at the same time) I may have missed something.

    Wes
     
  4. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you could program some mono versions of your patches? Most guitarists use just a handful of sounds, so maybe you could create a seperate bank of mono versions that avoid ping-pong delays etc..?
     
  5. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    Thanks for the reply. That was my first thought, I was just hoping to sum with hardware, but if that doesn't work out thats what I'll do.


    I checked the mono out on the pod last night with several stereo sources. It appears that the pod does not sum the effects loop to the mono out. I ran a pan effect that turned into a crappy tremolo. I also setup a dual mono program with reverb on the left and delay on the right. It worked fine in stereo, but only reverb came through in mono.

    Thanks again for our input. Any other thoughts?
     
  6. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    I run my POD into 2 channels of an Onyx 1120 mixer then I roll all the low end off one channel and compress it with an RNC as an insert, then I pan them both right and run the right output from the board into one channel of my sound card to be recorded as a mono track in Nuendo, where I add stereo effects as needed. Sounds convoluted but it works really well. Here's a couple examples of some guitar I recorded using this setup and a Lado hawk fitted with Seymour Duncan SH-01, JB junior and Cool Rails:

    http://www.coreymilner.com/brain.mp3
    http://www.coreymilner.com/mix-old.mp3
    http://www.coreymilner.com/1-01.mp3
    http://www.coreymilner.com/shapes.mp3
    http://www.coreymilner.com/mix.mp3

    You get the idea, it works. I suppose any line mixer could help you sum your channels. :cool:
     
  7. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    Thanks, but I'm talking about a live situation.
     
  8. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    I use it live too. Any line mixer can sum two stereo channels into a mono channel, i.e. http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLRM203 but the trick is finding a mixer which enhances your sound or at least doesn't alter it unfavorably. That's the whole reason I use the Onyx, it sounds good, but anyhow it's definitely not a solution for everybody. It's a great solution if your live rig is complex though because it also gives you room to easily add/control/bypass a keyboard, multiple effects units, HEIL talkbox, input from a MIDI guitar rig, a vocal mic, vocoder, harmonizer, etc. without any hassle.

    Cheers. :cool:
     
  9. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    I understand line mixers. In fact, I mentioned them in my first post.

    Thanks for the input, but I'm trying to see if a simpler/cheaper solution is viable. If I could spend $500 on a mixer to sum two channels in a live guitar rig, I would. I do appreciate your suggestion and hope I don't come off rude. I just can't spring for an onyx in this situation. Thanks again.
     
  10. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    You didn't seem rude to me at all. :) If you are fussy about your guitar tone, line mixers are one of those things you absolutely have to test to assess. Two units from the same company may alter your guitar sound differently, subtly, but differently. The best plan is to rent them first and try them out. It's cheap. :cool:

    I'm no fan of line mixers for stage guitar rigs, my experience has been that they always affect the sound adversely, usually making it "thinner" than it was which is, of course, the bane of the POD. Except of course for premium/expensive or custom units which can be quiet excellent. Honestly if I were you I'd probably just run the left out and leave it at that. I can't imagine anyone in a typical audience noticing the difference in a zillion years. 2 cents anyhow... :cool:

    Honestly I'm not even 100% sure of the phase implications of summing stereo effects anyhow. It might not even be favorable for some patches. If one channel is "pushing" while the other is "pulling" combining them results in phase cancellation. :cool:
     
  11. Tommy P.

    Tommy P. Well-Known Member

    Sounds like the most cost effective solution.

    Fender Hot Rodded Deville heaven?. 8) Except for having two of them.

    Good to tweak live patches at full stage volume, it factors in the ears frequency compression curve. I like to play loudly for a while for my ears to adjust, then I tweak the patches at full volume. Nice tweak and save on the fly at gigs too.
     
  12. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    One good side benefit of Tommy's suggestion is that you can be confident you won't be introducing any phase problems.
     
  13. IIRs

    IIRs Well-Known Member

    If you summed both channels your pan effect would dissapear completely! I reckon you should program a mono bank, as mono usually needs to be drier than stereo anyway.. I run a stereo guitar rig myself btw, but I am resigned to that fact that for smaller gigs I will probably be mic'ed in mono anyway, and I program my patches accordingly.. ;)
     
  14. Boltino

    Boltino Guest

    Mono bank it is! Thanks everyone for your suggestions. You made many excellent points and I think this is the best option.

    Yes Tommy, Hot Rod Deville Heaven!! :D Till I get that second one that is!!! Also thanks for the tweeking tip!

    Wes
     
  15. Calgary

    Calgary Active Member

    Good choice. :cool:
     
  16. ErikFlipside

    ErikFlipside Guest

    LOL, Calgary...gotta love the Simpson's samples! Props!
     

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