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Suggestions for recording trumpet and piano 4 audition tape?

Discussion in 'Brass' started by Captjono, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. Captjono

    Captjono Active Member

    Hi,

    I'm putting together a recording for a recorded audition for an orchestra.

    I will be recording mainly trumpet, but also with piano in parts.

    The venue is quite live in accoustic, but not as bad as a toilet!

    I will be using Logic Pro 6 with a MOTU 828.

    Basically I need suggestions for mics, set ups, tips...all help and suggestions would be greatly appriciated!

    (it will be a live recording, with no editing allowed!)

    Thanks heaps!
     
  2. restashured

    restashured Guest

    What kind of piano? If it's a grand, then there are numerous ways to mic it. An easy one is to open the lid and put an XY pair of condenser microphones somewhere around the middle of the strings. It depends on what kinds of mics, and how many, you have available. I would recommend a condenser mic with a pad on it for the trumpet. Another possibility that has worked nicely for me is a Sennheiser 421.

    Happy recording
    -restashured
     
  3. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    I much prefer ribbon microphones on trumpets myself. Trumpets can get blatty sounding and condenser's only help to accentuate that. Ribbons are lush and smooth on trumpets. Better you should put some nice condenser microphones on the piano? If you want a warmer piano sound use a large capsule condenser microphone. Want a brighter sound, use the small capsule condenser's. Doesn't really matter whether it's an upright or a grand. The 421 wouldn't be bad on the piano, just not my first choice.

    Very picky picky sometimes
    Ms. Remy Ann David
     
  4. jahtao

    jahtao Guest

    What stuff have you got at your disposal? 828 only has two mic ins
     
  5. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I'll kind of agree and disagree with Remy a bit.

    I'll completely agree that I would use a ribbon on trumpet. My choice would be a Royer 121, Beyer M160, Coles 4038 (in that order). I haven't used any of Wes Dooley's stuff yet, so I can't comment on it.

    I would slightly disagree that big mics on piano equal warmer sound. A pair of Schoeps (either MK2s or MK4) would render a full, warm, huge piano sound and these little guys are SDCs... I would agree that, in general, this rule MAY apply, but it is by no means a golden rule.

    For a demo tape with no editing allowed but in a decent space, I would do the following - (this is based on my equipment - yours may vary)

    Beyer M160 about 3 to 4 feet out from the bell of the trumpet - perhaps a tad off axis and aimed in.

    Piano - Gefell M930 pair in ORTF (maybe a little or even a lot wider) at the lip of the piano. Really, these are just there to add a little clarity - their level should be left pretty low overall.

    Overhead pair - Schoeps CMC6 MK2s placed a good bit away from the performers (based entirely on the size of the hall, the placement of the players and any acoustical treatmens used). I would try to find the edge of the ambience field and move them in just a tad.

    Pan accordingly (piano spots soft left and soft right - trumpet presumably soft right and overheads hard right and left)

    and voila...

    Just some thoughts...

    J :cool:
     
  6. Captjono

    Captjono Active Member

    Thanx for all that!

    To answer a couple of questions...

    As far as mics go, I'm going to hire them (or borrow them if some friends have any that would be appropriate), so that's why I'm going for suggestions.

    The piano is an upright (unfortunately).

    Yup...the 828 only has 2 mic pres, but I have access to more...so number of mics is not a problem...although I would like to keep recording as simple as possible...as I am the sound tech and the player, I don't want some extensive set up stressing me out!

    Thanx again...any more suggestions greatly appriciated!
     
  7. pantonality

    pantonality Active Member

    If you're auditioning for an orchestra then it's fair to assume the audition material is classical. If that's the case then close mic'ing the piano is more rock piano recording technique than classical. Open the top of the upright and put a pair of mics 4 or 5 feet away from that. A separate mic for the trumpet is a must for an audition tape (I assume the trumpet is the instrument auditioning, the piano's just accompaniment). The trumpet mic should be at least as far away from the bell of the trumpet as the piano mic is from the piano. You want to capture a good amount of room sound, but since this is an audition they probably don't want it to sound too good. They want to hear what you really sound like, if it sounds too good there may be an assumption that you've EQ'd or done other processing. It's gotta sound real.

    Good luck!

    Steve
     
  8. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    Hey Steve -

    In general, I would agree with you. However, I would caveat that with, I would agree IF the piano were the solo instrument. Using close spots on the piano to bring out the detail when it is an accompinament instrument is actually quite common and a good practice. Bear in mind, you're not trying to capture the piano's sound with these spots, simply to help define the clarity of the attacks (essential for accomp work...)

    Augment that with a good main array and you should be golden.

    J.
     
  9. Captjono

    Captjono Active Member

    Yup, it is classical, and yup, the piano is accomp.

    I was concerned about micing too close to the trumpet, as not to get too much air, or edge in the sound.

    Would it help to face the trumpet at a slight angle away from the mic??? (and as you said...back from the mic)
     
  10. Captjono

    Captjono Active Member

    Ok...these are some of the mics I have found out I can hire...what do people suggest?
    NEUMANN U47
    NEUMANN M149
    AKG C12VR
    RIBBON MICS - RCA (77DX), RESLO (pair), TANNOY.

    Some others include;
    TELEFUNKEN, AKG D12, SHURE 555, GRUNDIG STEREO.

    From these mics...what would be the go for the recording???

    Thanx all again!!!
     
  11. RemyRAD

    RemyRAD Guest

    For fine arts classical music, I recommend the 77 DX ribbon microphone for your trumpet along with the suggestions that Cucco has made regarding the piano accompaniment. Of course if you are a good musician, you will sound quite nice on any of the microphones that you listed. It's such a personal thing. Even though I like ribbons for trumpets, I was fortunate enough while working at a prominent studio in NYC to sit in on some overdubs with Maynard Ferguson. He had the bell of his screaming trumpet right up to the grill of a Neumann U87! He blew his ass off into that microphone and it sounded fantastic! If he had gotten any closer to that microphone, it would have gone up his butt! C'est la vie!

    Blaaaap!
    Ms. Remy Ann David
    (I'm sorry I blew too hard)
     

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