Sum Adjust Junior

Digitally Controlled Analog Summing Amplifier

  1. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    audiokid submitted a new resource:

    Sum Adjust Junior - Digitally Controlled Analog Summing Amplifier

    Read more about this resource...
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

  3. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Looks a nice unit, but for €3500 I would expect to be able to place a channel in the L-R space better than just L, C, or R.
     
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Agree. Seems pretty expensive but it does look nice.
     
  5. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    @audiokid , @Boswell

    It's not my intention to rock the boat - I think that both of you guys know that I'm a strong advocate for new technology and good gear ... but can someone explain to me why the same thing couldn't be accomplished with a console like Bos's A&H?

    (I'm just sort of thinking out loud here...)

    If the whole idea of a summing mixer is to add analog saturation - to "warm up" digital tracks - you could do that with a console, too, no?
    Understanding the expected downside(s) to a console would be things like maintenance, available space, the type of preamps, transformers and op-amps in the desk, noise, etc., but, the upside is that you could also use it to track with, too... and considering that with either workflow, you'd need a multi channel output I/O, which adds to the cost...

    I understand that you're not gonna get a Neve or SSL for the price that the Sum Junior commands ($5000 ( U.S.) , but at the same time, would not Boswell's A&H desk accomplish the same thing, and, with a console such as that, you'd also have EQ, Inserts, Auggies, and variable panning... and where you could use your DAW as just a place where the tracks reside, ( using it much like you would a multi-track tape machine).

    So, if all the device is doing is providing analog summing of multiple channels down to a stereo mix - a console could do that too.... or does it all come down to the difference(s) being in the voltage of the summing device, and that these upscale summing devices provide more voltage - and ultimately a higher quality signal - than what a typical and similarly priced console would?

    My thoughts above aren't rhetorical, guys - I'm not arguing anything here - my questions are sincere...
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Tracking, what ever you like. I love the LA2A, 1176, various pres, Pultecs ... :love:

    How I hear analog summing devices, less is more. ITB / digital processing sums better to my ears. But I do like using analog gear because its really fun.

    What I hear when using analog gear, high quality analog is paramount otherwise stay ITB. And even then... meh.
    I'm not saying I don't like the pass I get from one DAW to the next, especially through a Bricasti, I just don't hear or see analog summing counterparts of a console (EQ, panning, faders, monitor controller) better. You won't be seeing me using a console for hybrid.
    I'm in the camp of "less is more" which is why something like the above is a nice idea but it too has more than I would want today. (I'm still waiting to try my Folcrom and Millennia M-2b summing section).

    Example: The Neos is an amazing summing console but the panning, faders, master and monitor section was a waste of money for me. I never used it, it was going backwards. And the 120V rails is cool but I also didn't find it worth the hype once I got my gain staging right and got rid of all the expensive analog bloat.
    I think 60 vs 120V rails makes a bit of a difference when you are adding all the analog bloat that goes along with the thinking... more and more analog must be better.
    Personally... once ITB... for the most part I think ITB processing is far superior to the best analog gear available today. And I only really starting hearing the truth to this after I started using a very transparent external monitoring controller implemented to compare what A/B/C analog summing was really doing for me.
     
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  7. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    The main approach that is used in products like this is passive summation, so no op-amps in the input paths to add colour or distortion or to overload. With a passive summer, you need make-up gain on the 2-bus, and that's how you can impart sonic differences by using the products from the various manufacturers.

    I find the A+H Zed-R16 (an active summer) works well for most jobs, but I do sometimes bring out my home-built passive summer and feed it into a pre-amp chosen for that particular project. For predominantly vocal-driven numbers, the API3124+ does a good job in this make-up gain role, but where there may be a prominent piano or other wide-range instrument, I have also used a DAV BG1 or even an Audient Mico. Because of the relatively lower levels at the input of the make-up gain amplifier, I put any required 2-track EQ and limiting as separate analogue boxes in between the amplifier and the capture system.
     
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  8. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    It seems like - based on my very limited research, so take what I'm saying with a grain of "whatever', LOL - that you can pretty much get a summing mixer in whatever configuration you want; some, like the Neve, have "silk" circuitry built in, while others, like the Manley 16x2 offers valves; some offer built in gain reduction, some don't; while others do offer choices as to tube, tube-less, transformer or transformer-less architecture.

    Here's an interesting article I found on SOS - it's from 2012, so it's a bit dated, but I felt that it was a decent round-up of the available types of summing devices available:

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun12/articles/spotlight-0612.htm
     
    kmetal likes this.
  9. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    These days remote/control, complete recallability, and the ability to micro and macro edit/automate, is essential to me. My goal is clean SRC and format version, with so many many varying surround, and stereo formats and sample rates, I'm still not sure what, if any analog gear belongs between the session sample rate, and the final.

    Digitally controlled analog is absolutely the bomb, and really the 'only' way to go in analog imho. If this was a stereo/multi ch compressor, or eq, I'd be super excited.

    I could see this for being life saver for someone who already has a boatload of outboard, or who deals w stems or maybe mastering.

    I really respect the attention to detail and design in this piece. I feel like these types of things are tough to describe, and are easier understood when experienced first hand.
     

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