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Tape Emulation vs Tape

Discussion in 'Recording' started by John A, Aug 28, 2001.

  1. John A

    John A Guest

    I bought a Pro Tools system after working 15 years with a board and tape machine. As mixerman has said, Pro Tools proved to be a sonic compromise for me, so I have partnered up with a fellow and now we got the rig hooked to a Neotek Elite and some good outboard with Apogee D/A.
    Now we are looking at getting a tape machine also, but before we do, we are looking to see if there is any digital emulation that will sound good enough. Two individuals online have said that the best tape emulation is ironically included with Cubase 32, True Tape. Has anyone tried using Cubase32/TrueTape as their digital tape machine, and then ran each channel out to a board? Would this sound better then recording straight to PT with no emulation?
    The reason I ask this here instead of the DAW forum is because I would really like to hear from guys who actually know what a Studer sounds like and could tell me what tape emulation sounds good and what sucks. thanks
     
  2. Originally posted by John A:
    Now we are looking at getting a tape machine also, but before we do, we are looking to see if there is any digital emulation that will sound good enough.

    Not in my lifetime or anyone elses.

    Do they have settings for different bias settings that you might want to try? I rarely use the recommended overbias and may even vary beyond my general setting depending on the instrument I'm recording. How about different tape types? Different machines? Well, you get the idea.
     
  3. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    I generally find the followin to be true: If a product has the word 'emulation' in its name, it's more than likely not as good as the product its emulating.

    Conversely, I have also found that if a restaurant has the word Bistro in it, it's more than likely serving very good food. I'm sure there are exceptions I'm unaware of, but that's been my experience thus far in life.

    Mixerman
     
  4. nodell

    nodell Guest

    I have seen a lot of talk/discussion about the Empirical Labs Fatso (no personal experience however) - you may want to look into it.

    Fatso

    neil
     
  5. Mindsender

    Mindsender Guest

    Read a review in Sound on Sound about Cranesongs new HEDD by a mastering engineer Brad Blackwell (I think, but not sure) who ranted about how he'd complained for years, and has now been satisfied by this new device, proclaiming digital is now as tapey as tape, or words to that reflect. Just a clue on the trail. Paul
     
  6. Dave McNair

    Dave McNair Active Member

    I like the sound of that new bistro emulation plug in. I think it's called Garlic Factory.
     
  7. Teacher

    Teacher Guest

    u gotta link to that paul?
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    OK, I am well up on this topic.(and hopped over to PT after 19 years of 2" tape and world class mixing desks)

    The choices open to you so you dont have to throw your PT rig in the trash:

    1) Fatso - Impirical labs (an analog device) getting one soon!
    2) Hedd - Cranesong (better than Apogee SE units IMHO) Have one!
    3) Analog channell plug in - McDSP (very good sounding) Want it!
    4) Dad Tape plug in - DUY (also good) Use it sometimes!
    5) You MUST use an external wordclock unit such as an ArdsyncII or Nanosync. Have the Nanosync!

    Converters: (huge expence!)
    6) Mytec
    7) Prism

    Options for you to record digitaly if you wish to throw out your PT rig.

    8) Radar - great rep for its analog sounding converters.
    9) Paris - not many hip plug ins run on it but it is suppsed to sound 'better that PT'.

    IMHO you would have all bases pretty covered by getting the first 5 items.

    :)

    Jules
     
  9. Jon Best

    Jon Best Active Member

    Look at the Crane Song Spyder. 8 channels of great pre's, great converters, a little mixer, and tape emulation similar to their HEDD- it's really the only one I've ever seen die hard analog people speak kindly of. At 6 grand, it's a good deal.
     
  10. miketholen

    miketholen Member

    I use a Studer 827 2" 24 trk along with 2 Studer J37's (all tube 1" 4 trk).
    NOTHING (not even otyher machines) will EVER come close to replacing those machines period.
    you guys can emulate all you want. ;)
     
  11. Rog

    Rog Member

    The VST PLugin Magneto might be worth a look. I'm pretty convinced that digital will never sound analog that same way a violin will never sound like a drumkit. I have been known to be wrong though ;)
     
  12. Dave McNair

    Dave McNair Active Member

    Mike, an Ampex ATR 124 or a Stephens 24 trk will seriously smoke an 827. Hell a clean late model JH 24 has more detail.
     
  13. patrick

    patrick Guest

    John, the True-tape in Cubase is a simplified version (which can only be used when recording, not to apply as an effect later on) of the Magneto plug-in, which should be available for PT. You can tweak more on the Magneto. Whether this will do anything for you, is another question!
     
  14. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    Originally posted by Rog:
    I'm pretty convinced that digital will never sound analog that same way a violin will never sound like a drumkit. I have been known to be wrong though ;)

    Brilliant!
     
  15. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Originally posted by McSnare:
    Mike, an Ampex ATR 124 or a Stephens 24 trk will seriously smoke an 827. Hell a clean late model JH 24 has more detail.

    A ^#$%ing A-800 mkIII will eat an 827 for breakfast and $*^t it out before lunch, it's the FET's in the "computer alignment" that ^#$% up the tone. A pot is way less destructive to the audio than a FET, it's one of the reasons alot of folks don't like the sound of SSL desks, all of the FET's in the audio path.

    As for 'analog emulations' in the digital domain, I've only had the chance to use a 'Spider' once on a session. My reaction after returning from that session was "holy $*^t, analog may have just taken a serious headwound".

    There are still problems with mixing in the digital domain, and those problems will be with us and very real for many, many moons to come [check out this article by John Klett on 'Large Format Digital Consoles' http://www.technicalaudio.com/reading/digitalconsoledelay.html] ...but digital is getting a hell of a lot better than it was just two short years ago. Things like the 'Spider' are helping it along, eventually [like when DAW's have been around half as long as analog recording...the first DAW I ever saw came out in the mid 80's]it'll get to the point of greatness. It's taken some serious stides in terms of improving sonically in just the last year or so, I sincerely doubt that it's going to go backward.

    It's a pity that the 44.1/16 Compact Disc is still a standard, but without it where would the R&D money for things like DVD-A have come? I'll bet even money that around the time that DVD-"L" (in other words, a dozen revisions down the line) is released, we're all [even us crumudeon motherfuckers] going to be pleased with the quality of the audio returned by these systems.

    A good, solid, microphone collection and "front end" system will never become obsolete, but the platforms and operating systems of today will be the landfill of 5 years from now.

    A-827...nice deck if you like compromises...the 'autoalignment data DAT' thing is a great "convenience" at the sacrifice of audio quality...but frankly, I've never been all that opposed to getting on my knees with a screw driver and aligning a deck...then again, I prefer good audio to convenience any [and every] day.
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    "the platforms and operating systems of today will be the landfill of 5 years from now."

    Arent studio economics used to upgrade & replacement? All through the the last 4 decades engineers have looked forward to the 'hot new desk' or the 'client catching' new piece of equipment.

    Is that 'all over' now? Is it just vintage Neve and Studer - 'forever" ?

    I wonder what other tech industries feel a zenith was reached in the 50's & 60's. it would be interesting to know a few others appart from ours.

    Old Lieca cameras for example are collectable but I wonder how many vintage models are in pro use today.

    Old sports cars are fun to drive and the man-machine performance is a thrill for many, but a cheapo modern car will beat many off the block.

    Jules
     
  17. sign

    sign Guest

    Yo Jules, but I happen to have a 32 year old Jaguar that beats my new Renault Megane coupe, my wife's Nissan and our Volvo :)
    (I also have an Otari MX80 that beats......)
     
  18. MMazurek

    MMazurek Guest

    Yo Han, but I've got a 2yr old Porsche that only needs good gas and an oil change every few months. (It's fun to go against ANY vehicle in...win OR lose) ;)
     
  19. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    And at the moment I'm on a '72 Ironhead with straight pipes and no chain guard [which scares the $*^t out of me...it'll have a chain guard on it by the end of the week] that gets me to the office every morning after my now regular morning 'kick aerobic exercises' [it's a kick start only bike...can't wait 'til it get's cooler out...kicking near solid 70 weight oil is a pisser <not>.
     
  20. sign

    sign Guest

    Originally posted by MMazurek:
    Yo Han, but I've got a 2yr old Porsche that only needs good gas and an oil change every few months. (It's fun to go against ANY vehicle in...win OR lose) :D (this has nothing to do with tape emulation, my apologies for that)

    Peace.
     

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