-->Test Recording on a Pipeorgan<-- What is your thoug

Discussion in 'Location Recording' started by _basso_, Jun 17, 2006.

  1. _basso_

    _basso_ Active Member

    This recordings is made to day, and im curious about your thoughts

    And don't forget, this is only a test recording, some footstep here and there
    The church was open to the public :wink:

    Here is 5 Impro-piece that you can listen to.

    https://lagring.storegate.se/USER/Share.aspx?id=663a61c1-287f-48e3-811d-acdb12964df1


    1. Is the Pipeorgan to close ?
    2. Should i increase the acoustics mic ?


    Every one is free to comment this recordings.

    My setup is 2 Gefell 296 omni, spaced 900mm 15 meters from the organ.
    The acustics mic are 25-35 further end of the cathedral whit 3meters space.
     
  2. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    Basso, I'm only listening with headphones at the moment, (don't have access to my system speakers at the moment) but for the most part, I like what I'm hearing. If anything, I suppose things are just a tad too dry, but not by much. There seems to be plenty of reverberation as well. (Sounds like about a 60/40 mix of close vs. ambient?)

    Probably the main concern I have for the close-mic'ing is hearing some chiffs and breathy sounds, no doubt from the mechanics of the instrument itself. (I initially thought it was people walking around and making noises in example #4). Perhaps you can reduce that by bringing up the acoustic/Ambient mic levels.

    I think in the end, it will come down to taste (Yours, the ogranist's, and whoever is in charge of making the final mix.)

    I'd like to know more about the instrument itself, and the church where it was recorded.
     
  3. _basso_

    _basso_ Active Member

    Here is little info about the organ, the english page is not ready yet. It' a new update website.
    It's unbelievable power in this organ :shock:

    http://www.gronlunds-orgelbyggeri.se/scripts/visa_orgel_sv.asp?id=1

    Yes, you are right about the mix, 100%. 1-0 USA vs Sweden :cool:

    Some pictures of the church.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Luleå-cathedral-inside1.jpg
    http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Luleå-cathedral-4.jpg
     
  4. zemlin

    zemlin Well-Known Member

    The link to the track in the first post is not working for me. Tried firefox and IE.

    I'm wondering if I have heard that organ before - not that I'd remember. I lived in Stockholm for 6 months back in '72 and my dad liked to go to organ concerts. I was 10 at the time.
     
  5. larsfarm

    larsfarm Active Member

    It's a matter of taste, but with my current preferences...
    1: no
    2: no, I wouldn't like more. If anything less.

    I'm not sure what a chiff is, but I guess it is the sound you get when wind starts to blow through the pipe, much like on a flute. To me they're part of the instrument. I think of an organ with its divisions as an ensemble of several instruments. I want to hear each instrument and where it is located in space. The room is only one part of an organ. The chiffs could perhaps also be compared to the mallet hitting tympani. You don't just want the resonant sound after the hit, you want the detail of the mallet too. It also depends on the kind of music I suppose with polyphonic baroque music needing more clarity and the later romantic, big stuff can benefit from more room. IMHO of course.

    This is a magnificent instrument in Luleå cathedral from Grönlunds organ builders some 320 miles from here. We have one large organ from Grönlunds in my home town (Sundsvall) too, but it isn't quite as splendid as the one i Luleå. The organs where I have access to good organists interested in recording are much smaller baroque style organs in smaller churches.
    http://www.gronlunds-orgelbyggeri.se/scripts/visa_orgel_sv.asp?id=1
    http://www.gronlunds-orgelbyggeri.se/scripts/visa_orgel_sv.asp?id=11

    best regards
    Lars
     
  6. JoeH

    JoeH Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what a chiff is, but I guess it is the sound you get when wind starts to blow through the pipe, much like on a flute. To me they're part of the instrument. I think of an organ with its divisions as an ensemble of several instruments. I want to hear each instrument and where it is located in space. The room is only one part of an organ. The chiffs could perhaps also be compared to the mallet hitting tympani. You don't just want the resonant sound after the hit, you want the detail of the mallet too. It also depends on the kind of music I suppose with polyphonic baroque music needing more clarity and the later romantic, big stuff can benefit from more room. IMHO of course.

    I completely agree with you, Lars. I realize my comment about the chiffs didn't make much sense or help..... The "chiff" I'm referring to is the initial attack of the note as a result of the first puff of air into the pipe - it's the same sound you'd get blowing over the lip of a bottle; the air has to enter and begin resonating to make the actual note happen. I DO like hearing that part of the note, but just not to extreme. When the chiff (or groups of them together) become too loud or a distraction from the music itself, that's when it's too much (IMHO, of course).

    Although Pipe organs are inherently mechanical beasties, the goal is to NOT hear the mechanics too much, if it can be helped. The chiffs can be a lovely part of the attack of the note, when listening in the sweet spot(s). Ditto for opening & closing louvers, pedal squeaks, etc. Getting too close to the mechanics can be the audio equivalent of seeing the "strings on the puppet." It can happen a lot with older, traditional mechanical "Tracker" instruments, vs. more modern electronically keyed instruments.

    I also like "spitty" Hammond B3 sounds (a la Keith Emerson, or Jimmy Smith and other Jazz organists before him). They all like to hear a little attack to the notes as well, (a little bit of key click electronically generated to simulate chiff sounds) and when one hears a good pipe organ doing the same thing, you can easily guess where it all came from.
     
  7. TeddyBullard

    TeddyBullard Guest

    Sounds really nice to me...Good mic choice, MY 296s are the most used mics in my kit. Perfect distance.. as a matter of fact, I am selling my schoeps mics for more Gefell 296s..
     
  8. hughesmr

    hughesmr Guest

    For the record, pipe chiff is something that is purposefully voiced into certain families of pipe tone. Certain schools of organ building (North German baroque, "orgelwebegung") employ the voicing technique while while others (French/German romantic) smooth over the attack by placing "nicks" in the mouth of the pipe to reduce or eliminate the chiff. (But never put chiff into organ string tone!)

    At any rate, I just wanted to say that chiff is a purposefully musical sound placed into the instrument by the voicer ... so don't try to hide it!

    Cheers,
    Mike in OH
     
  9. ptr

    ptr Active Member

    Jan,

    These recordings are quite improvements on the first ones that You posted. I dont mind the the small "Chiffs", I'd say that those are inherrant with pipe organs. BTW; Markus Wargh seems to be a fun organist to record! All five clips sound very good on my ancient B&W Matrix 801 Series II -- sligtly less "bass" than I have on My own Organ recordings, but then that's probobly Your average variation of building, organ and mike technique..

    One question: How did You arrive at the distance(es) for mike placement?
    (15 meters seems a tad longer from the organ than my experience with Swedish Cathedrals and Churches would calculate.. The distance between Your mikes and the organ seem to be a constant varying quite much between every set of ears..)

    /ptr
     

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