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The HR824 Debate

Discussion in 'Recording' started by chadmaniaus, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. chadmaniaus

    chadmaniaus Guest

    In the process if tuning my room. Been reading all the good info on the site about acoustics and monitors. I'm sure you've all had this discussion (I did try searching some old threads first), but in your opinion...what's the general consensus on the HR 824's? I was able to pick up a pair of these for cheap, when they first came out. So these are all I've used. I do notice more low end in my mixes than I'm expecting...so I'm trying to find the root of the problem!

    Thanks!
     
  2. realdynamix

    realdynamix Well-Known Member

    :) I don't know what treatments you have applied, but there could be many reasons.

    You may not be hearing enough low end, which causes you to add more. If I place my speakers near a corner, the bass will rise significantly. If I place them close to the wall the bass will rise. If I move them too far away it will roll off.

    The problem with many rooms is finding enough area to place speakers correctly. Small speakers put out some low end, but can't produce anything much below 30hz, or 40hz. If these sounds are not heard, or understood while mixing, then it can dominate a mix.

    Your speakers should be able to give enough information, just be careful with the sub-sonic energy. There are many more possible things, like too much mid/high energy, which makes you want to match the low end level to.

    Hope this helps a little,

    --Rick
     
  3. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Many people choose the HR 824's just because they seem to have more bass. Many other people hate and choose other monitors because they feel the hyped bass makes the HR 824's inaccurate. You likely got what you paid for..
     
  4. jonyoung

    jonyoung Well-Known Member

    chad, I bought some 824's from a friend for a decent price, and I'm getting ready to do some room tuning as well. That being said, I think I got lucky with my desk & monitor placement overall. Bass is translating well for me when I play mixes back on the home stereo, car, wherever. I'm a bassplayer, so I pay extra attention there. Rick's observations about corners and walls are on the money. Tuning should help a lot. How you use EQ for bass info(be it drums, power chords, keys, bass) is really critical as well, it's the easiest place to make a mudpit out of a mix. The upshot is you should get improvement from room tuning. BTW, have you tried playing a mix or favorite CD and walk around your control room to listen for hotspots? If you find the bass jumping out as you approach the back wall, you're probably sitting in an antinode of low frequencies and adding bass to compensate. Good luck with the tuning!
     
  5. yodermr

    yodermr Guest

    While I am no master engineer, I have many years of expereince and currently get excellant results with my mixes. I have the HR824 currently and used to have NS10s. Here is what I have done to produce very acceptable results.

    Straight up the HR824s have too much bass. Typically our home studios are too small and poorly treated which adds to bass problem.

    A few keys to the solution from my expereince in one room - again I am no master engineer.

    :arrow: Tap the HR824's bass level. I cut them off at 47hz

    :arrow: Calm the room down. Half of my room wall surface area is frequency traps of one sort or another. I use panel design. One low absorber, about 4'X8' surface into double wall cavity, one low mid 4'X4' single wall cavity and one mid 4'X4' half wall cavity. Finally a total of 4'X16' of high absorber, which is speaker cloth over 2X2 frame filled with rock wool. Oh yea, a big soft couch!

    :arrow: Sound dispersion - The other half of my room wall surface is made up of log siding. This is half round exterior wall siding. Not a flat surface to be found!

    Now when I play commercial mixes they are a slight bit bass heavy but a very attainable reference point. Nothing so out of whack that forces you to do drastic mix eq-ing. The room sounds great. For the most part a very even frequency response without problematic (meaning I can hear/mix my way around them) standing waves or frequency nodes.

    Bottom line for me, work out the room issues until you have the best neutral environment, then get back to making music. Also to note, I had similiar problems with my NS10s, so even though they are highly regarded, the room will still make them sound like crap just as easily.

    :wink: M
     
  6. TeeME

    TeeME Guest

    Wow, nice forum

    yodermr, right on. My experiences exactly!

    Lets look at monitors in general. Their job is to display pressure response first, and sound good later. Great monitors have accurate pressure response at all frequencies. Having done this (I am almost a half century old) studio engineering thing for most of my life, mapping a monitors translation is the first thing to do if you use many rooms to work. Tannoy 6.5's are used by the smooth jazz crowd and they work really well. Slightly bass heavy, they display the response of the smile face eq when used at mixdown and this works if the engineer knows this. As far as the NS10's, they display almost perfect pressure response but they do not sound good because.....the mix is not teathered to them yet. Teather your mix to them and magic can happen. Realdynamix is spot on.

    I wonder what he uses and how far away from the walls they are myself. Their is a careful balance of no room and too much room. Great engineers can do it with NO room treatment...afterall..how much acoustic control is happening in close micing?

    Ditto that..

    See you all on the replys.
     

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