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The Round Trip Issue

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Paul999, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

    I want to deal specifically with the Round trip issue identified in other threads. We all agree that an ITB recording should not suffer from the phase issues of round tripping. This should be easy enough to test. There are several members who claim to be able to hear phase shift from "round tripping" easily. If I take 6 mixes of raw drum tracks and bounce some of them totally ITB with no processing and send others with each track round tripped with no processing and then bounce them you guys should be able to pick out which is which with nearly 100% accuracy.

    I understand the quality of the conversion and the hardware gear( a relatively clean D&R console) will effect the test. It should make it easier for analog guys to hear the result.

    Who wants to participate? Is there a better way to test this?
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    through all of this i have never said anything about phase. to tell the truth that is way beyond my pay grade. but what i do speak of is what i hear.

    and again i am not speaking of simple file copy functions or bounces. that's not the question. the question is what sounds better when i mix.

    so what i think you ought to try is doing a mix itb and doing a mix through your console. try to duplicate each element as close as possible but include dynamics processing, reverb and delay effects and time based effects. if you can use plugs on the itb mix of the same analog processors you have on the otb mix, all the better. listen to see if one sounds better than the other. i already know the answer. in fact i challenge anyone to make the analog mix sound worse. remember the goal of this exercise is to exactly match the 2 mix's.

    my contention is using an analog mixer makes better mix's. the better the mixer or console, the better the results. that's all.
  3. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

    Absolutely. I am not doubting the power or sound of analog. Chris, Bos and some others have mentioned that they hear phase from round tripping. I am looking to isolate the hybrid system protocol one part at a time to decide how far I necessarily need to go.
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I have no idea is this is helpful for you:

    Crane Song - The listening test

    The files presented here are the first in a set of files that have controlled and repeatable amounts of jitter. There are many questions about jitter and until now no real way to know what it sounds like. It can have different sounds as you will find out. The goal is education.

    Depending on the playback system and the level of ear training it may or may not be possible to hear the differences in the files. The level of jitter has been pushed a bit to help this experiment. You will need to down load them and play them in your listening room

    link to the Jitter Pages

    http://www.cranesong.com/A_Matter_ Of_Time_The _Audibility_Of_Clock_Jitter.pdf
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I've never thought about printing different 2-bus mixes to the capture like this, then summing those ITB . Seems like a lot of extra fuss but it has me thinking. What do you all think?

    Iz Radar 6 - Gearslutz.com
  6. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

  7. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

    I will take a listen to the crane song jitter test. Thanks for posting that.
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    More current discussion.

    Aural jitter recognition... in The Mastering Room Forum
  9. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Interesting thread about phase:

    High pass and phase - Page 2 - Gearslutz.com
  10. mberry593

    mberry593 Active Member

  11. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    mberry593, awesome post.
  12. mberry593

    mberry593 Active Member


    Coincidentally I just noticed that Waves In-Phase is on sale this month....50% off. I am very happy with it & I do recommend it. It includes all-pass filters so you can see the effects of them.

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