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Thoughts On Yamaha 02R96

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by MrPhaSe, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. MrPhaSe

    MrPhaSe Active Member

    Yamaha 02R96VCM | Sweetwater.com

    What are you're thoughts on the piece.

    I've been thinking of spending a lot of bread on a harddisk recorder...On top of a bunch of outboard gear.
    Maybe this will be the all in one piece I've been looking for.

    Anyone with experience using the piece?
    Does it sync with pro tools?
    Is it a standalone recorder? I'd like to record instruments IN the box.. Then sync it with pro tools to track vocals.

    Thanks
     
  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Yamaha has always been one of my favorite analog consoles. Their digital gear has always been glassy and metallic sounding.. I wouldn't waste my money on this but others may disagree.
     
  3. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

    Agreed! This is a lot of bread to pay for minimal sonic benefit.
     
  4. MrPhaSe

    MrPhaSe Active Member

    I feel that.. I think i know the glassy sound you're referring too..
    If you look at the Roland MV8000 beat machine compared to an akai i think that's a good example...

    But does anyone know if you're able to record a whole song.. IN THE BOX with the yamaha?
    How about the DM2000?

    I think i might be able to get a good deal on one of these..

    So can you record a whole song in the box? Then dump it to pro tools through maybe usb or firewire?
    I've been researching this for days.. still no direct answer
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    hmm,

    If I can profile you a bit and not spend too much time trying to be exact. I'm just sensing I could help you better by asking these questions below.

    I personally think you are spinning your wheels here a bit or not telling us enough to guide you better.
    I sense you are ( like most of us) unsure of what you are really looking for at this stage of the game because you don't quite understand the whole digital realm and converters etc. Thats why you are asking good questions. Been there too.
    I'm guessing you are focused on the higher quality system but have read about the sterile ITB sound with digital etc so you want no part of that, if you can find the better solution? You want to get on the right track from the get go, so, you are thinking that the console is the answer because its not a computer? Am I close?

    Have you looked into hybrid DAW systems?
    Also, if you are looking for a project studio that uses a console, has firewire, 24 channels of very good pre-amps and tracks like a hot damn to either Win7 or OSX, The PreSonus StudioLive 24.4.2 is the deal for you. Its not high end sounding but it will do what you are looking. If you are wanting high end, this Yamaha stuff is the wrong direction. Others may disagree.

    Maybe you need a really nice analog console with huge headroom and some killer converters with some specialty preamps and compressors to which you track to ProTools. Do the hybrid thing.

    In a nut shell.... if you are looking for high end sound, but your attention is on something like the Yamaha series, there are much better solutions in modular gear which directs me to suggesting hybrid for you.
     
  6. MrPhaSe

    MrPhaSe Active Member

    To make it as straightforward and simple as can be...

    All i want is to record audio on a standalone recorder. With Pro quality.
    Thats it.

    I dont want to use a computer to record.. but i DO want to dump the tracks to pro tools in a computer to mix.
     
  7. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

    In that case depending on budget. I'd suggest an ADAT HD 24(decent converters) or a used RADAR system or a new one. The pro quality will come from the operator and the front end(mic pre's, compressors and eq's while tracking).
     
  8. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    This is my main way of working (except the PT bit). I use a variety of external pre-amps feeding a pair of Alesis HD24XRs to give me up to 24 tracks at 96KHz. I derive monitor mixes from the output of the HD24s taken into a desk as required.

    I have several different mixdown methods depending on what I'm working on. For an OTB mix, I will replay in analog from the HD24XRs into an analog desk, mix and then capture the 2-track via ADCs at 44.1KHz for CD burning. For straight 44.1KHz mixes, I can replay from the HD24XRs via ADAT lightpipes into a digital desk, and this avoids the additional D-A-D conversion. The other way of working (which I don't use very much) is to transfer the tracks directly from the HD24 disk drives into the computer via a caddy receptacle and then mix ITB. This last method would be your best way of working using PT.

    HD24XRs (and the EC-2 upgrade for the standard HD24) have been discontinued by Alesis, but there are still several around, either new from dealers' stock or used from people switching to fully ITB working.
     
  9. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    It's important to understand - the Yamaha mixers are not standalone recorders. You would need to record to a computer or HDR.
     
  10. frobass

    frobass Member

    I have had many, many releases that I have mixed and recorded on the 02R/02R96-many of which have charted on the Billboard Charts. Yamaha has been 'ahead of the curve' for many years now (almost 15 that I can remember) with their digital consoles. Whether you like the sound of the mic pres is a matter of choice-the fact is that it's flexible enough that, should you not choose to use the mic pres, you can always use outboard mic pres.....whatever.

    There are some really cool things about this board.

    1) Internal patching/routing is crazy good!

    2) When most DAWS suffer from a DSP related cost in sonic quality, one may use the DSP off the Yamaha to supplement many functions that may cost you processing power (resulting also in sonic quality) on your DAW. Pro Tools, until recently, had a very controversial problem with summing internally. I used the 02R96 to overcome the loss, when summing, by using the bit increase on the eq section, when summing anything off of Pro Tools. I have not had to do that with PT 10, so far, so I think that problem is a moot question.

    3) It STILL is a great controller with many options only recently offered on other consoles......again, Yamaha was ahead of the curve.

    4) The automation, should you decide to use it, is stellar and easy to use.

    5) If you don't like the 'flavor' of the eq or effects, you may buy the Waves card for internal processing. This gives you 5 effects for only 8 channels, but in my experience, you will never need more......if you do, use another card slot.

    6) The difference over the 2000 is the mic pres, I am told. The power supplies for the 2000 series are all 'separate'-the power supply for the 02R96 mic pres is the same, causing a 'draw' when more than a few mic pres are used. I've used up to 24 mic pres at one time, but, as with all things, the more crucial elements were always recorded off the first mic pres on the board.

    7) BEST thing!!!!! No noticeable delays on monitoring off the analog side. OK, here's how it works, ALL DAWS have a slight delay introduced by the converters......even Pro Tools! Avid has it down to a minimum, but when monitoring, one can still hear the delays in a studio headphone situation. The solution is to: use whatever onboard/outboard mic pre you want, route out of the 02R96 to your DAW, monitor through the DAW only to check your sound and levels, then SEND your signal off the aux sends on the 02R96-you won't be listening to the output of the DAW, but if you watch your levels, it doesn't really matter, in my opinion......you can always listen back and make any corrections. The point is, headphone cue systems 'lie' anyway, so let your musicians get used to the 'lie' off of the 02R96......without delays.

    8) Again, I use the 02R96 PRIMARILY as one huge bus summing device. Normally, in a mix situation, I only use the Lynx Auroras to route to my analog devices on the inserts of Pro Tools (and sometimes the 02R96), and convert down to any digital or analog device through the HEDD 192, allowing that to do the AD/DA conversion. If I use no comprressors or EQ off the Yamaha, there is no noticeable 'coloring'.....if I use some surgical eq or limiting, it is a minimal coloration......IF any. Usually I use the Waves channels for any surgical stuff, anyway. I have 3 slots of 8 channels of AES/EBU, which I run to Pro Tools via one HD 192 (controller for monitoring) and 2 Aurora 16 devices (16 analog, 16 digital channels per device). So, basically, 48 channels of combined io's.

    9) The 02R96 has more slots than the 2000 or the 1000. This means that you can route more channel io's to Pro Tools-up to 32. I use 24 and use one slot for the Waves card, which, by the way and is another good argument for the 02R96...........you don't have to constantly upgrade the Waves card, which means that you don't have to constantly shell out your money for updates (contrary to Pro Tools plugins)! This has saved me THOUSANDS over the years! And just for the record, the effects on the Yamaha are very nice......whether you like them or not (as Michael Wagener once pointed out to me), they are very 'phase coherent' compared to other choices.

    10) It is not that big, nor that heavy and there are many consoles (including Argosy) that are made just for this console. The price is not so bad, either, considering what you get.

    So, your choice. Do you want a good controller with the options of using the console inserts or the inserts in your DAW? Do you want the option of using effects in your DAW or on the console?

    If anyone is interested, I have recorded and mixed 'in the box' with Pro Tools, Digital Performer and Nuendo. The difference in sonic quality between an 'in the box' mix in Pro Tools and one run off the 02R96, into the HEDD 192 and then into an outboard 2 track (an Alesis Masterlink in this case) is radically noticeable! Nuendo is still my first choice for a mix DAW, but Pro Tools 10 is getting there, in my opinion. Just going from the HEDD 192 back into Pro Tools makes a difference, but it's not the same sonic result (in my experience and in the opinions of scores of engineers I have shown this to), as going into another, stand-alone, 2 track device........digital or otherwise. I know, I know.......there are many naysayers, but each and every time I've demonstrated this to, even the most savvy Avid experts, they back off and begin the 'well, that's because.........and, it shouldn't really be............most engineers are happy......', etc. Back pedal, back pedal.......

    So......yes! Buy one, if you can afford one! The opions are myriad and this board is very flexible!

    My apologies if I have offended anyone.
     
  11. Paul999

    Paul999 Active Member

    Nice post frobass. Clearly this piece works for you which is great. It wouldn't work for me but I totally get why you love it. You'll have to try harder to offend me.
     

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