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Time for Omni ?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Sidhu, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. Sidhu

    Sidhu Active Member

    Mar 22, 2004
    New Delhi, India

    My drum mic set up :

    Beta57A - snare

    SM57 - Kik (replaced)

    Octava MC012 matched Pair, Hypercardioid capsules. - Overheads. (soundroom)

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    My Ov's go somethink like this :

    OV1 : Bout 8-10 inches above the top rim of Rack Tom 1.

    OV2 : Bout 6 inches above the top rim of Rack tom 2, towads the right corner, Pointing slightly outwards. (engineers perspective, between the rack tom and the side tom)

    I keep both OV mics equidistant from the snare.

    The cymbals are not above the OV mics, I get the drummers to lower them to be at the same height as the mics (a tad higher than the capsules). and are placed on to the sides of the mics, with a distance of what sounds balanced.


    Now, while i think I get a reasonable drum sound, the cymbals lack deffination. I was wanting to know if ordering the Omni capsules for the 012 would help ?

    I have uploaded a small 256kbps mp3 (470KB) example. A rough mix I did yesterday.


    The kit is a Tama Swingstar. Mapex M-series snare. Orion Solo 14" Hi-Hat, Orion Solo 16" Crtash, Paiste 402 16" Crash.

    The ride comes out very well (not in the sample), cause i think it's placed right, vis-a-vis the mics. Also, while I might be guided to take my OV's higher, I loose the tom sound needed when mixing heavy metal. There is also the issue of EQ with the OV's. Getting the right tom sound results in the Cymbals becoming very shrill. But that is for now livable.

    Thank you.

  2. 2012

    2012 Guest

    Before you buy

    Try the recorderman method...

    And before buying omni capsules, i would close-mic the toms.

    Also try moving the drumset around. Walk around with the floor tom
    and hit it and look for where it sounds real sexy & set up the kit there.
    The room and the drumset are interconnected.

    The Audix D series might be your poison for that style of music...
  3. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Moderator

    Feb 23, 2005
    "The room and the drum set are interconnected".....EXACTOMUNDO!
    Throwing up an omni in a not-so-great acoustical environment may make your problems worse, too. Omnis pick up much more of the room, you need to watch that. The Oktavas have a reputation for being very erratic, quality-wise, especially the Chinese versions. And with (2) of them up in the air, you might be experiencing some phase issues that MAY be minimized by pulling one of them out. Try it. And BTW, I LOVE the SM57, but on kick? Hmmm....
  4. Sidhu

    Sidhu Active Member

    Mar 22, 2004
    New Delhi, India
    Re: Before you buy

    Dont have enough inputs/mics/pres

    I have already found a sweetspot. But I have a more or less untreated room. So that sux!

    I am mostly happy with the kit sound. The cymbals are thin and splashy though. The reason, in all probability is cause they are currently placed in the maximum rejection area of the overhead mics. Why I was enquiring bout ordering a pair of Omis caps for the 012's.

    My only current solution, to the cymbal sound, would be to raise the height of the OV's to a reasonable level, but that kills the desired tom sound (which is somehow more important).

    Would you please listen to the clip ? I guess it would be instrumental in me explaing my problem.

    thank you!
  5. Sidhu

    Sidhu Active Member

    Mar 22, 2004
    New Delhi, India
    I had the 012's ordered from the soundroom, and am quite ok with them.

    I also do not think I have any serious phase issues. I take care of that. Make sure my snare stays put and improves.

    I cheated on the kick.. :oops:
  6. Jman

    Jman Guest

    ohk, here's what you do, now listen closely and do this in the EXACT order that I tell you to or otherwise you will have forever thin sounds out of your cymbals... First - take the end of your ride cymbal stand (the end that a bolt end on it) and install an acoustic guitar/under the sadle/bridge pickup on it, now repeat this first step on all of your cymbals... than slap one of those bad boys on your fourhead and turn around in circles 5 times while repeating the phrase "indi musicians on myspace all suck" and tapping the ride cymbal rythmatically... Second - shove a drum stick through your snare drum and drop it like it's hot... ohk if none of that works for you then try recorderman's way...

    hope this didn't help because if it did I would be slightly freaked out....
  7. 2012

    2012 Guest

    i have listened to the tracks and once again, i suggest you try the recorderman method with your overheads. i also think you need to invest in a low-frequency mic for kick/bass. one such as the AKG D112 or Audix D6 would be good for you.

    go ahead and duplicate the overhead tracks in your session and use one of the stereo pairs to mix the cymbals and use the other pair to EQ for the toms.

    this will enable you to bring out the definition from both.
  8. johnthemiracle

    johnthemiracle Active Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    vienna, austria
    Home Page:
    i think the previous post suggests a direction that might lead to succes, still you might have to compromise. i don't think it's really possible to get a decent or "typical" metal drumsound with just two overheads and no spot mics on the toms. in your example the hi end of your overheads sounds very hyped and exxagerated, which is necessitated by, if i understand you correctly, your need to get enough hi frequency "click" on the toms. in a jazz situation you'd just place the overheads and not eq them at all and you'd be fine, but for metal you need some 2-6 khz content on the toms that "bites" through the guitars. if you see any chance, try to expand your setup to accomodate two or three (or however many toms you have) more mics. if that's not possible, give the suggestion with doubling your overheads on seperate channels a try, it might help.
  9. Sidhu

    Sidhu Active Member

    Mar 22, 2004
    New Delhi, India
    this is true...

    I do not see my self expanding my setup immediately, constant financial crunch. But i will give the recordermans method another try. I tried it once before but withought luck. Must be getting something worng. Also, duplication the OV track sound like a great idea. Maybe i can just edit the toms on the duplicate track and EQ them... this should work..

    Thanks a ton to everyone!


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