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time to upgrade need input

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by doulos21, Aug 7, 2004.

  1. doulos21

    doulos21 Guest

    ok here is what i have currently in the studio ill do this in list form its easier.

    1. daw - ptle 001 waves native power pack 1 and 2 acid 4.0
    vegas video cooledit and a few good direct x plug ins
    2. mixer tascam dm24 digital board, korg 168rc digital board "old"
    3. mics nady drum mics "7" rode nt5s matched pair sm57s "2"
    akg 1000 2000b and 3000 and a mxlv69 tube mic
    4. pres "laughs" 16 tascam pres better then presonous but not
    great sm audio 8 channel pre before i had the tascam still
    better then the art pre on every channel "sad really" art tube
    mp "bass di" presonous bluetube hey i got it for 75 bucks
    and 2 pres on the 001 there is also 2 on the korg 168rc again
    nothing to brag about count them 31 pres and nothing great
    and i call this a studio
    5. outboard behringer tube eq behringer 9024 6 band multi
    compressor i prefer this thing over waves c4 presonus smart
    compressor has its limited uses the hardwear mic modeler
    i loved it so much i bought the hardware version "stupid
    mistake that could have been a good 900 to go toards pres"
    and a digitech s100 reverb
    6. monitoring mackie hr624s and alesis point 7s with a sampson
    amp, sennheizer hd600 phones, akg 240s and a sampson 5
    channel headphone amp and various headphones cables
    connectors crap that makes a studio etc.

    ok so i have the crap that makes a studio. Now i want the goods that makes a studio. I have $3,000 to spend and i think the obvious place to start is the lacking preamps correct? My concept for studio pres are as follows correct me if im wrong I think a professional studio can get away with 3 pres to start with, an 8 channel, a stereo channel, and a single mic pre. 8 for drums 2 for acoustic guitars, keyboards stereo samplers etc. and the single channel is obvious vocals. Again this is starters. I know in a real studio you will have around 4 or 5 channel strips for just vocals. I’m not asking to have all 3 filled in my budget that would be crazy, but i want 1 solution for the 3,000. This is what i was thinking if I’m going to get an 8 channel pre If i could get a summing bus with it i could have 2 very important fuctions of the studio used not just a drum pre ,but also able to run my mixes through it for a diffrent flavor something similar to a larger console feel now the first thing im sure your thinking what would I be mixing without any decent mics or pres etc. I work in other studios and im wanting this room for a mix room. I’ll track outside this studio anyway mostly on location recording some in professional studios i get a bit of both. so do you guys know of any pre that would work for this? Or do you have another solution? I was thinking first of the tube tracker, but ive had great exsperence with trident I love the s20 pre so I’m looking at the trident s100 possibly. I think that would add a nice flavor of color to my mixing. The tracks I want warmer I could output to the trident the tracks I want left as they are I could run through the tascam and run them both together at the same time to a standalone burner. Plus im sure the s100 would make a killer all around pre. What do you guys think? Anyone use the s100? Its in my budget. ,But I don’t know. Am I even on the right track in thinking here?
  2. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Distinguished Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Silicon Valley
    I'd suggest you make total use of what you got already and put your focus on at least getting some good to great mics before I'd do anything else. And since your tracking at other studios, all the more reason to have some great mic's to take along with you.
  3. doulos21

    doulos21 Guest

    interesting What good would high quality mics do me without a decent pre to use? and what mic could i buy thats not already at a high quality studio? I mean i could spend 3,000 on a sounddelux e47 or a u87, but then 75 percent of the time in my studio its gonna sit there, or what use it throught a tascam pre kind of overkilll i think. Where a great pre i could use with the mics i have now but yet again what great pre wont already be at a high end studio say an avalon 747? but at least i could get more use out of it in my own studio as well. I'd rather have a average mic and a high quality pre then a great mic and a pos pre and thats just electronic theory common scence. but thanks for the input
  4. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Guest

    My common sence is to find things that does not reveal eachother.
    Find a Pre and a Mic that sounds good together.
    This way you won't end up with an expensive Mic that sounds horrible through your Pre.
  5. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Distinguished Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    Silicon Valley
    1st off, not all studios have a great selection of high end mic's.

    2nd, there is nothing wrong with the mic pre's on the Tascam that can't match up well with a very good mic. A good to great mic is likely to make much more of a difference than upgrading the mic pre in the Tascam. You'd have to spend most if not all of that $3k to just get one channel of a great preamp that would make a night or day difference over what is in the Tascam.

    3rd the 747 is not a mic pre. It is a 2-channel comp/eq. The 737 is the mic pre. And it is debateable if the 737 it is truely a great high end mic pre. Good ya, but not quite great.

    4th, If your going to a high end studio that has has hi-end mics and mic pre's, what do you need with a hi-end mic pre to start with? You should be able to get acceptable results with the Tascam mic pre's.

    And to Henrik, you don't appear to know what your talking about. A good or great and expensive mic is NOT going to sound horrible through even a half ass cheap mic pre. It won't preform and shine like it would with a great mic pre, but to use the word - horrible makes me question your credibility.
  6. maintiger

    maintiger Distinguished Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    Whittier, California, USA
    Home Page:
    A couple of AKG C414's will surely upgrade your mic collection- you can get these for under 2K- If you want a good vocal mic for $1100 you can get a soundelux u195-
    This comes to about 3K and will greatly upgrade your sound.
    (plus mics like these always retain their value well...)
  7. J-3

    J-3 Active Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    I've been going down this same path lately and know where you are coming from. The biggest improvement of my sound was when i got the TLM 103, not the best but pretty nice. When I put in my Neve pre it did "upgrade" the sound but not as dramaticly as the Neumann. The Neve did make my other mics more useable. Perhaps you can get 2 channels of pre that are versitle. Use it to add color when you need or run it cleaner. I'm using an Allen and Heath board for my drums then the Neve for most everything else. Not ideal but a good starting off point. I'm getting a Great River MP NV2 at the end of the week. I'm hoping it will raise the bar another notch. As far as the mention of the 414's, I have to say I got way more use out of my TLm 103 than my 414, NT2 and AT 4050 combined. I'd opt for a pair of 103's before the 414's. I'm also getting in a AEA R84 next week, we'll see what she has to say........Good luck.

  8. maintiger

    maintiger Distinguished Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    Whittier, California, USA
    Home Page:
    TLM 103's, AKG C414's- both proven mics that will do you well for under a grand each. I suppose its a matter of preference but you could do no wrong by having them both!
  9. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Guest

    I know that there's more to it than just good or bad!
  10. PaulColley

    PaulColley Guest

    mic pres...around $3000 to spend...

    Have you looked into the Trident S100 or the Midas Veronica series?
  11. infidell

    infidell Guest

    Analog Summing is what you need!

    I've had a Trident S100 for about 6 months, got it for many of the same reasons you are looking to upgrade. I've got a DAW (with SAW32) and the 8-ch Presonus and a Yamaha O1V and a few entry-level mics. KRK V8 monitors. You have more DAW power with PTLE but otherwise I think we've got pretty similar setups...

    I would suggest you go ahead with the Trident S100 or better a MIDAS board. Compared to the pres in the yamaha and presonus, the Trident pres are much more usable. The EQ is a big help too, although a bit noisy at max boost, and there are these breakout cables that are kinda a pain in the butt...

    The biggest difference I noticed though wasn't the pres. Yes the pres were much better especially when combined with the EQ, but the main improvement was ANALOG SUMMING!!

    Digital summing blows. How the channels are mixed in the end - that's what makes the biggest difference. There's so much you can do in PTLE with eq and comps and fx etc, but all that work gets flushed if you don't have an analog board mixing it all together. I recorded a project using the Trident pres and then mixed it twice, once on the Yamaha and once on the Trident. The extras of the yamaha (digital eq & comps per channel) didn't make a bit of difference, the yamaha mix sounded thin & flat, the trident mix was deep and wide and just BETTER.

    Problem is the Trident is only 8 channels. You could go with a Midas board, which are on-par if not better than the Trident, and have more channels.

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