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To all the Behringer lovers I've wronged before...

Discussion in 'Recording' started by sproll, Mar 9, 2005.

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  1. sproll

    sproll Active Member

    I'd just like to set something straight because it seems that quite a few of you have taken what I've said out of context.

    I do not hate Behringer gear, however I choose not to use it myself anymore after a few different bad experiences with it due to build and sonic quality.

    I do not hate people that use Behringer gear. Hey, we all have to start somewhere and if $60 is all you have to spend on a pre-amp or $300 for a set of reference monitors then by all means, go for it. I'm not an elitist and I certainly don't mix on a million dollar mixer. I am also not a professional by any stretch of the imagination, I am a regular user that knows a little bit about gear and I like to help out by giving my opinion on what knowledge I have gained from my own research. You may agree with me, or you may disagree with me... and that is fine. Not everyone agrees with Kurt or Davedog on this board either, but most of us listen up when they have something to say.

    My opinion on most Behringer gear is that for just a little more, you can get much better quality... and by a little more I don't mean 300% more. You can get even better deals if you don't mind buying used, like what I did. Yes it is true, the best gear in the world is not going to make a recording sound good if the person behind it doesn't know what they are doing. Definately. It does make the job a little easier however.

    If you like Behringer stuff, great... that's all that matters. If you ask me my opinion, I will give it to you. I think for the most part its not very good - it's unreliable and doesn't sound all that great to boot. Hey, most things that cost more are better... guitars, amps, recording gear, cars, computers, etc. They have a better build quality, more features, more QA, better workers, everything. The question is where the cost vs performance doesn't make sense for you anymore.

    I apologize to anyone who thought I was "being snobby" for what I said... I most certainly did not want to come across like that. For what it's worth, I was trying to give my opinion on something that I feel pretty strongly about. Maybe I went about it in the wrong way and maybe I used some words that were too harsh. In any event, I don't want anyone to think I'm an idiot on the board so if I offended you then I'm sorry.

    I have decided to no longer comment on any Behringer gear since it seems that there are a lot of people here that think it is great, and when I do I get jumped on by 10 people saying either 1, it's great gear if you don't have any money, (but then isn't a 6$ computer mic great gear if you can't afford a 15$ radio shack one?) or 2, it's not the gear but the guy behind the gear. Both very logical arguments with merits, but not really against the point I was trying to make. It's because of this I will stay out of future discussions involving this since I don't want it to become a mud slinging match. This board is a valuable resource to everyone and I know if I was an outsider I wouldn't want everyone fighting on here.

    Hope this clears everything up and if you have any questions or comments please post below. Thanks!

    Tom
     
  2. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    Hey. everything has its time and place. For a newbie starting out, behringer might just be the gnat's ass. After a while you outgrow it, if you are serious about your art. A few pieces of Behringer gear are useful in an upgraded studio. The headphone amp comes to mind, also the control surface. they do just about everything the more expensive gear does, for a lot less. Also the ADA 8000 is surprinsingly clean if you need an xtra 8 inputs via adat. i don't have one but I have heard it and would not hesitate to get one if I needed an xtra 8 tracks via adat on a pinch.

    A couple of pieces that are pretty terrible and I have heard also come to mind- forget the B1 mic- buy the b1 from sp instead. Also their pod kcnock off is not very good and most of their preamps suck. Their mixers are usually really noisy and dull sounding. I know, I bought one for sound reinforcement when we had a live stage on weekends in my old studio. Should have gotten an used mackie instead, but it was hard to resist 16 ch new for 200+ bucs... live and learn.
    I also heard their bass amp and the tone sucks- but hey, $300 for 100 watts is hard to resist for people on a budget and many will fall for it.

    All and all, like I said, a lot of this gear is useful for newbs starting out- we all gotta go through our growing pains. Of course you are better off saving your money and getting quality gear but it is hard to wait. I know.
     
  3. I don't think anyone wants you to stop commenting, every opinion counts, just refrase it and understand that most people asking about Behringer, are obviously not experienced for example, instaed of

    Behringer Suck

    or

    All Behringer is crap

    how about

    If you feel serious and can wait you really should save up and get a (instert product here), it has better (mic pre's, well more than likely), and will be better for you as you record/play live in the future.


    I just don't like people being kind of a jerk about it, I don't think Behringer stuff is great, but I do think it has a place, on the low rung of equipment, well some of it, they make some stuff that can be considered middle of the road, but I don't think they make anything that can be scientifally considered AWESOME!!!! (notice the four, yes FOUR exclimation marks, that is the sign of great gear, just FYI)
     
  4. I don't know about the amps, never WANT to even consider owning one, but acording to my Bro, who is a damn good bass player, they have some very cool Bass cabs, he is planning on getting one
     
  5. sproll

    sproll Active Member

    In my defense, I don't believe I ever just said Behringer suck without stating why, or said all Behringer is crap. However, that is neither here nor there.... point taken.
     
  6. No you didn't

    :D


    I do agree with btw, if you can afford it, it is better to buy something that you can use long term
     
  7. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    This should show you guys that owning Behringer gear is not about starting out. This is a studio of a guy I met while working in Branson....Check out his gear and client list and tell me........if It makes any difference what equiptment one has.

    http://www.nothm.com/equipframe.htm


    Even Big studios with BIG clentel have behringer in their racks.



    ITS NOT ABOUT the gear. Let the Elitists keep up with each other Jonesing for the lastest "pre amp of the day."You guys with smaller budjets and common sense work with what you have . There is no reason one cannot make a great sounding CD project with any of todays gear, regardless of price if you have an ear.

    All the hi dollar gear studios going out of business is a testament to that.

    Clients dont buy gear.....they buy ears.......

    You guys with Behringer anything.....Don't fret and don't allow anyone to tell you its junk. It has a purpose and serves it well enough.

    Only those who need to impress show off the high dollar crap. Pre amps are one of the most over rated pieces of gear in a studio. I d rather spend the money on a decent set of monitors.
     
  8. sproll

    sproll Active Member

    Your argument is not very convincing.

    This guy for one has a very LARGE list of excellent recording equipment, and a total of 2 Behringer products. Both of which I bet he hardly uses, but I could be wrong. 99% of his gear is very good and not budget in the least.. so I would have to say his experience coupled with his gear is making his sound. One compresser and a "de-noiser" isn't going to make or break his quality.

    Also, where are the so called BIG cliental? I see a list of mp3s on the site but I haven't heard of any of the artists... maybe I'm just not in the loop which could very well be. I'm not trying to be an ass, just curious that's all.
     
  9. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    You must be a younger guy if you don't know those names. Thats fair. But realizie what you have. The ability to record with gear whos quality would have cost much more 15 years ago and way more 25 years ago. Even the Behringer stuff of that quality wuld have been very expensive. Thats the problem. You guys are hung up on names ans flavor of the day rather then what can you do with what you have.

    The point is he is not embarrased to include those listings (as Im sure you would be) as well as the DBX compressors. Many on these boards are afraid to claim they have Behringer gear and thats wrong. Its not that bad. Even by todays standards and especially the bang for the buck factor.

    Garys clients are or have been MAJOR acts in country music. Many who have or had there own theaters. Acts that can afford to go anywhere including the Pro Tools based more modern facilities in Branson.

    Its not about the gear. IN his case he does have some nice gear but its not the end all in any category.

    I remember when digital was brand new. Analog was noisy and dull.........everybody had to have digital this and digital that. Even though the converters by todays standards were terrible. Then all of a sudden the "warm" analog sound everyone wanted to get away from was again king and thus tubes became all the rage and retro equiptment.....Now they sell CDs containing antique and harsh 8 bit samples processed through $2000 pre amps....Funny stuff.

    Its like the flavor of the day.....I remember in the 70's when tubes used to be a pain in the ass...and solid state was the savior...Not that long ago....now everybody wants tube this and that.....Before my time guys wore short waxed hair......now short moosed hair is back......

    Nothing is new....may as well just make music and not worry about brand . Its all pretty good especially when considering the content of todays CD as well as the end devices many are playing back on.
     
  10. sproll

    sproll Active Member

    Yeah I am younger and I don't listen to Country music so that would do it. :)

    Just curious since you seem to have been around... what do you like better for sound? New digital equipment, or vintage analog equipment?

    Tom
     
  11. I know Behringer Compressor and some of the other signal processors they make can be quite good, and better than some more expensive models, so this does not suprise me, I had a guy who was a audiophile nut, but was smart enough not to care about brand name, just performance, he has a Behringer Feedback destroyer, and some other stuff.

    Like I said, some they do make some pretty good stuff
     
  12. sproll

    sproll Active Member

    Of that I have no doubt, I just haven't had the pleasure of using one of those boxes yet.
     
  13. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    Old stuff to me is like having a 1969 Corvette. Nice to look at and the wow factor and all. But it's expensive, has none of todays creature comforts, drives like crap and is maintinance intensive. The bang is the wow factor not the technology. And with today's software you can create any sound from any sound....especially if you are going backwards in fidelity from digital to analog.


    I prefer gear that gives me what I want from it, without regard to its nameplate or age. I have and really like the Joe Meek VCQ1 pre Amp.It is the end all for me. I am satisfied and it does well enough for my mics which consist of an AKG 414 and Rode NT2..( I prefer the Rode) There is not too much in the studio that can be said of.....end all. But you cant keep waiting for the next bus. Ya got to get on and go somewhere on the bus thats stopped.


    I used to do that years ago. Never put a CD together because I was always waiting for some new module or gear to come out. So Id record and stash songs. Then when I finally after 15 years have the opportunity to sell my music in venues I went back and made a compilation of 15 years worth of recordings from various apartments and stuio setups I had over the years and mastered them to sound as close to each other as possibles and sold them!!!
    I was smart enough to put the lastest material first, LOL

    Although I put in the liner notes the dates the music was recorded
    No one ever came to me and said there was technical issues. And there were indeed. Some songs were recorded on a Tascamm 244 some on my current digital set up..... LOL.

    People are not that hip to recording technique. They listen to the song as a whole not with "engine EAR"as I call other self producers....and studio rats..... I learned a lot from that experience I had wished I knew years ago.....lol. I could have saved a bundle....But we live we learn.

    Today is as good as its gonna get though. (64bit 244khz recordings anybody? not me......)

    Our human ears a very limited in what we can hear or not hear compared to the specs and availability of even the some of the cheapest audio equiptment today on both sides of the fence....and you can take that to the bank.


    There has to be a point at which the music is more important, unless you are just into the producing/engineering part. Then your screwed because it NEVER ends. Always something new and "better"?? .. I also have an ART VLA. Compressor I dont use much but kept anyway. I happen to like optical compression over VCA as you can see.

    I prefer the digital stuff over all. Becasue as I said above I can always degrade a perfect digital signal to a lesser fidelity analog signal using a variety of SW and boxes. Iin a home enviornment where you can easily have electrical ground issues the less cables the better.

    . In fact when I get off this job and get back to Vegas in May, Im putting all my rack gear up on Ebay and going completely digital except for the Meek. The software efx are fantastic nowadays and theres no need for all the rack stuff in my case anymore. Just a couple pre amps and a good converter with decent pre amps will do fine.

    I only use the rack stuff for monitoring anymore through a Mackie 24-4 which is also going away. Thinking about buying the Tascam 1884 to replace a lot of the analog stuff.

    [/url]
     
  14. Brock

    Brock Guest

    Behringer Amps

    Having just bought my first piece of Behringer gear I have had no dealings with them before BUT!!! I just bough the Vampire guitar amp and I"ve got to say that for 500 dollars where can you buy a 412 cabinet with Jenson speakers,120 watts or 60/60 stereo with over 120 effects that you can ether mike or use xlr cables stright to your mixer, IN STEREO ? And besides all that, it sounds great.
    The only thing I"ve found I don"t like about it is the reverb is a little weak, no big deal.
    As for their other equipment, I can"t say but for anyone wanting a muti-function amp for stuido work check this amp out. I belive you will be very happy with it"s proformance,and so will your wallet.

    Brock.
     
  15. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    And thats what Behringer has always and still does best across the board. Seemingly give you more for way less. If your happy with it all the better.
     
  16. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    in this world people go by names and not results!

    i have behringer products and am happy with it!
    for instance i have the digital mixer with the adat card! i use it in my studio has a control surface and if i want to record something live i can use it for my motu!!! why spend tones of money for a controler when the ddx3216 gives me the same and more?
    my first mixer was a behringer 2004a and when i need i can take it on the road without the big problem of breaking it or something...

    like i said people go by names and not by products! i'd go any day for the behringer mic than the akg c1000s and i have an akg d112 and a c414 tlII!
     
  17. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    That is the key my friend no matter what you spend or do not spend. when you are not unhappy with it for any reason, perhaps you heard something mmore expensive and better....or less expensive, you then can go in that direction.

    NObosy who spent $5000 for a mic or pre amp is going to respect your choices. Let them play in their guilded sandboxes and you play in yours.

    Its all about the music and the ability to put that on your own musical pallate with what ever brushes and paint colors and you you choose.
     
  18. maintiger

    maintiger Well-Known Member

    yeah but some equipment does sound better than other equipment and a lotta behringer equipment is not so hot- the pod knock off is not so hot, some of the mixers are real noisy, the B1 I don't like, the 60 watt bass amp is dull, some of their dedicated pres are below par- and I've heard these for myself. some of the stuff I've heard and its ok is the ada 8000,
    the feedback destroyer and Im sure there are others i can't think of right now. I hear their control surfaces are a great deal for a couple of hundred apiece
     
  19. kingfrog

    kingfrog Active Member

    I suppose its a good thing many Behringer gear owners do not have your ear. Audio is very subjective as we all know. One mans trash is another's treasure.

    If one never had or could afford a good steak, hamburger will still rid the hunger paings. And that is really all many are trying to do within their budgets..........put their music on a sharable medium.

    There are many ways and chioces to do just that for everone no matter what their financial means are. Thank goodness there are companies like Behringer who can provide that for many who otherwise who would have to wait for the finances. Alesis did it in my day. They were bashed then as well. Still are in many circles.

    Many will say wait and save up. I say do it now if you can with whatever is available within your means and replace the gear when you feel it no longer suits your own needs...not the needs of those who are further along on the gear front.

    People with great gear are not going to like your recordings...so be it. You do not need their apporval. ...Just make music and enjoy the recording process with what you can afford at the moment.
     
  20. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    That sounds like something from someone who has plenty of cash to waste ... or someone who is a schll for the manufacturers who make that kind of disposable crap. Which (if either) are you kingfrog? Do you work for a dealer or equipment manufacturer? Because a lot of your posts sound like you might.

    This line of thought is exactly what I am so opposed to when it comes to cheap gear. If what you want is some inexpensive boys toys, by all means the low end is the place to look.

    If you are striving to have and be the the best, don't waste your money on things that are not what you want. Don't settle. Your art deserves better IMO.


    That again, sounds to me like envy and jealousy.

    "They're rich and I'm not! Lousy bastards! wahhh!"

    It seems to me that to many, it's acceptable to rag on or ream out people who are perceived as being more fortunate than others, while at the same time those who cry "poor" all the time are to be treated with kid gloves ....

    Again I submit that until any of us have walked in the other persons shoes, we have no idea what they have done to get what they have. Just because someone has made a choice to have some good gear, doesn't mean they live in a "guilded sandbox". If that kind of disdane is acceptable, then why wouldn't having disdane for people who aren't "willing to spend $2000 on a mic pre" (as I have been accused of in the past) be ok too? Is it ok to say that anyone who isn't willing to invest in high end gear, perhaps has no business recording? If not, the the opposit should apply. I personally think it's a load of sour grapes.
     
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