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Toms that ring out for too long?!

Discussion in 'Drums' started by anonymous, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    My drummer has a kit that every damn drum on the kit rings like what seems forever to me. What does everybody do to get the tightness to the kit and keep them musical for recording purposes.
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Have you tried recording them yet? I love the sound of toms sustaining in the morning ... smells like ........... a record! (Do you surf son?)

    I have found that even toms that have a lot of sustain, sound killer when recorded.

    Moon Gel, maxi pads, noise gates set to cut the sustain after a hit, are methods used to dampen drums.
     
  3. Davedog

    Davedog Distinguished Member

    Toms that are open sounding and have that sustaining power are always great sounding...until the mix...This is where the LENGTH of the sustain can become a problem.So, for me, the dilemma is how to keep the beautiful open sound while controlling the length of the sustain so that it doesnt spill too much into the next set of beats.This spill can be nice, but for the most part,especially on a faster song, it becomes a muffler for other instruments and vocals.A good quality gate with a very good release is the only way I know of to tame this situation.Muffling can work also but it will affect the tone of the toms.If this is a secondary issue then the products mentioned are the way to go.Work with the drummer on the tuning first however.If he has both heads on the toms then you can tune them for length of sustain(somewhat) before ever using damping effects or gates.Again, sometimes the spill is a good thing, but is always predicated on the song as to what is going to work.
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    I like drums that have some sustain. But these damn things ring forever. And it's not like he is a simplistic drummer. It'd be different if he only played 4 4 beats or just a simple 2 4 beat.
    I just like the drums to ring out with a nice natural tone, not so much like the ringing out that is going on with these drums. They sound like they are ringing with overtones, and I would rather calm them down quite a bit. So that they sound more full and not so loud and lingering.
     
  5. skinsincyn

    skinsincyn Guest

    Try different, lower tunings of the bottom head. They call it the "reasonant" head for a reason.

    He's probably got it cranked as high or higher than the top head. A tight bottom head will give him better stick response, but lengthen the ring.

    Loosening the bottom head or maybe muffling it, will change the tone, but not as severly as the top.
     
  6. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    That's got to be it. I will try that.
    Do any drummers out there use some sort of tape to put on their drums?
     
  7. Clive Banks

    Clive Banks Guest

    I use tape often on the tom andd snare heads.
    sometimes on the bottom as well , any thing toi get a dryer sound that doesn't shorten decay ttoo much.i like a good ring but not when i hits the kick! :lol:
     
  8. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Where does everybody get their tape from?
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    :roll:

    Go to GC and GET SOME MOON GEL ... it's cheap and it works and it's very simple to use... just stick it on . It comes off easily and can be stored in it's own little "pilbox" container for futher use. If it dries out or gets dirty you can re hydrate it / wash it.

    You didn't answer my question .... have you recorded the drums yet? Is this even really a problem in playback or mix? I have recorded drums that have a LOT of sustain and it has never been an issue for me ... in fact I think they sound a lot better that way. I hate it for live, but on recordings it works.
     
  10. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    I was tryin to keep the question simple, but I admit it sounded really elementry the way I made it such a basic question. I should have typed "what crazy insane secrets to do drummer's use to get the drums to calm down". But I didn't. Sorry to disapoint you Kurt! :lol:

    What? Moon gel? Do you mean Moon shine? Kurt that stuffs, illegal. :lol:
    I will try some out, thanks Kurt!

    1) Yes we have recorded some stuff, and most likely will start doing more tracks this week, they sound fine but I am experimenting with a few new ideas before the pressure of time constrants exist.---you know
    2) I hate it for live use too. And that's exactally why I want them "not" so live sounding, but more of a real tight punchy dense sound with big boobs and long legs....
    ...wait a minute. I got a little off track. That the other thing I want 8)
    They don't sound bad at all, I just want them to calm down just a bit, and the trigger with the kick drum sample should help with the recorded sound Vs the live sound. I hope :roll:
     
  11. Rimshot

    Rimshot Guest

    Excess sustain could be caused by a couple of things.. Is he using single ply or double ply heads on top? double ply will cut the ring significantly. Also different shells and number of plys will effect sustain.. personally I love my Recording Customs (birch) the sustain is awesome..

    For a quick fix; moon gel
    -my favorite trick is the Steve Gadd trick of cutting out 'zero-rings from old drum heads (you can buy them but.. you miss the cheap thrills by slicing your fingers with an exacto-knife!). They float on the surface which doesn't impede the natural vibration of the head and are evenly distributed around the head. I have different widths for different rooms, but I usually use them on the snare with no muffling required on my (2ply head) toms. Sometimes I use them on the floor toms - but rarely.

    Many people will say that single plys are the way to go bla bla.. but I find single plys are better suited to jazz, have a more hollow twangy sound, have a sharper attack; also they break down a lot easier..
     
  12. vividsonics

    vividsonics Guest

    Another sustaining trick that works for resonant heads that ring too much (and can't be fixed by tuning) is to put cotton balls in side the drum. They gently cut the sustain of the resonant head. The "rings" previously mentioned work really well too. And of course the tape trick mentioned earlier.
     
  13. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Tape & rings----That's what I've done in the past. Thank you all for all the great info.
    Cotton balls is a good idea too. I think that "Drum bible" link that Rimshot put up on the other post was very helpful as well. I am much more confident about my approach to recording drums now. Thanks again guys! Now I need to go get some Moon shine...I mean Moon gel :lol:
     
  14. 132435

    132435 Guest

    First of all, make sure the drum is in tune well with itself (same tension all around the head). Before using tape or rings to dampen try using thicker heads. If you still find that there is too much sustain I'd go with the cotton ball idea. It doesn't seem to choke the drum as much; when you hit the drum, the cotton balls float up to let the drum ring naturally, then fall back onto the resonant head to dampen the sound.
     
  15. Randyman...

    Randyman... Well-Known Member

    That Cotton Ball idea sounds like it may be worth checking out. Been playing for 23 years, and never heard that until I read it here! :eek:

    One bad thing - if you need more/less damping, I guess you have to remove a head, and re-tune?

    Between head selection and tuning, you probably won't need much damping for a nice drum sound IMO (Obviously minus the kick and a small peice of tape on the Snare if needed).

    :cool:
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    :lol: Yeah baby!
    Woah who! 8)
    I bought those Moon gels today! Thanks
    Will I trip if I eat them?
     
  17. Sork

    Sork Active Member

    Haha, I'm always tempted to eat those! they look like candy.. mm
     
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