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Too many dark pres?

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by MadMoose, Jan 2, 2002.

  1. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    I've noticed recently that almost all of my mic pres are dark and colored. I have a VMP-2, Telefunken V672's, Dakings, a Presonus MP20 and a Joe Meek. I think the reason for it is because I was tracking to digital (Adat XT's) for a long time. Now that I'm running to 2" I'm wondering if I should get something that's a little more open sounding. I was about to get either an MP-2NV or a pair of 1272's but I'm wondering if I should get a regular Great River or a Grace. Thoughts?
     
  2. slicraider

    slicraider Guest

    Jay,

    I can't say enough cool things about the 1272. Definitely my favorite pre. I think you will enjoy the top end alot.
     
  3. Uncle E

    Uncle E Active Member

    That's funny...

    ...hope you're not a ribbon mic-fanatic.
     
  4. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    The 1272 seems a 'must have' so...... :) you know what to do..!

    Pick up an Amek 9098 stereo pre if you see one second hand (quite cheap often) - they have a jazz 'wow' or 'right there'/ present quality all of their own. Very 'quick' sounding...opposite of all your other pre's for sure.

    :)
     
  5. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    Hey Jay...give me a call at the shop. We have one of the 'production prototype' units for the Phoenix Audio DRS-2...I think you'll find it may cover your needs.
     
  6. mwagener

    mwagener Active Member

    Jay

    you might also want to try the John Hardy M-1 preamps, I find them to sound very open with a high end that works well with analog tape.
     
  7. The 1272? Would that be the Vintech?
    Ted
     
  8. jack2cannon

    jack2cannon Guest

    Check out the BUZZ AUDIO MA2.2

    This dual pre is fast, pure class A,
    Transparent, sort of in the vain of the solid state Avalon stuff like the M5 or AD2022

    Very resonable price also.

    Jack
     
  9. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Originally posted by Julian Standen:
    The 1272 seems a 'must have' so...... :) you know what to do..!

    Pick up an Amek 9098 stereo pre if you see one second hand (quite cheap often)


    I know it's been brought up about a hundred times, but is the 9098DMA anything like the EQ/pre? I had a guy bring in a DMA and KM184's for overheads a few weeks ago and it sounded good. The times I've used the 9098EQ/pre I haven't been knocked out by the preamp.

    Yeah, I'm thinking about the Vintech 1272's. Having a pair of 1272's seems to be a standard and I'm about to start flooding the indie labels for work so I'm trying to get those last pieces in place.

    I've used the Hardy's a few times and I've always kind of liked them, but they don't quite have the brand name that Neve has. Still I'm wondering if I should get something that's quick and open like those.
     
  10. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    I couldn't live without my personal Vintech and Brent Averill 1272 Mic preamps for bass guitars and electric guitars...nothing else does it for me that I have tried. They are both very similar sounding (although the Vintech is $500 less), so I assume a 1272, although a modified circuit, is supposed to sound like these units do, as both these companies make great product when properly made into a mic pre. I don't really think a Neve is dark, rich is more of a good word. The UA 2-610 was verging on dark...it seemed that the highs were attenuated, but I think the Neve is just more flat in the highs (maybe with a small bump in the mids?).

    For Rock, the only place I use the clean pre's (Millennia Media & Great River...but they both have tranny's) is usually overheads and acoustic guitars...but I use tube or transformer based mics (or at least figure 8 if the others are being used somewhere else) so those mics aren't really very bright. I wouldn't want to couple something like an AKG 451 or Audio Technica (or anything from BLUE other than a pair of Cactus) with a clean preamp, it's just not my cup of tea as I find those too bright. I like flat (ie highs), I like rich (ie low mids), I think it works generally more than bright and clean for rock. But out of all the colored mic pre's I think Neve is king, with API running a close second.

    Another thing you may want to think about Jay, is that people are trying to achieve what you already have naturally with tape (usually with a FATSO, Distressor, or Crane Song) when going to digital...so they want coloration on top of coloration (ie Neve-->Distressor).
     
  11. So is anyone going to recommend the 1272's for acoustic and jazz stuff, or is it just a "rock" thing? I never track with EQ and compressor, partially from paranoia and partially,I have to bet, from ignorance.
    What ought I to be after for just good natural sound? My solid state Pendulum pre's sound kind of dry and "flat against the glass". I'm hoping for something more dimensional...
    Ted
     
  12. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    "Dimensional" is only one way to describe the Neve. Neutral just isn't exciting to some people, some people desire that only. Everybody has their own preference for the type of music they record. For instance it seems Albini prefers Neotek pre's for rock, which are relatively neutral. I come from the school of coloration, where I really can't get enough of it. Jazz IMHO could really go either way, some guys like total accuracy...but old school jazz made with U47's, RCA ribbons and tape machines are very colorful and exciting. A Neve is going to sound great on acoustic guitar (with the right mic, just like any pre in any application). I just wouldn't want you to expect one thing and then get another. A Neve is like a staple to me, sort of like beer, oxygen, and sex (not necessarily in that order).
     
  13. drumsound

    drumsound Active Member

    Jay,
    I think you owe it to yourself to hear the
    Great River MP2 (or 4). It's a lovely, present, full, and "true" preamp. I absolutely love it on electric guitar. I find that a big fat tube guitar amp and a fat pre amp can muddy the mix. I like the cleanliness of the GR with a super colored source. On very clean sources (acoustic strings, overheads, percussion) that you may want to remain clean, it still shines. I got mine used and I couldn't be happier. I'd like another so I can use one for overheads and the other for electric guitar during basics.
    :D
     
  14. CyanJaguar

    CyanJaguar Member

    hi jay,

    which of your pres will you say you currently like the best. I am seriously looking at the vmp2 for a very rich, colored sound and I was wondering how it compares to your others.
     
  15. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    I'd investigate Fletchers offer, if I were you...

    The Amek 9098 - yes, same = good $*^t.. What eq could you use for overhead after it?

    Vintech sound v f sencible option 4 U.

    Pair of them on OH, rocking..

    Does an indie lable really know what a 1272 is? Serously? I really doubt it. Come on! That's a 'Tape Op thang' aint it? They dont read that! - only nerds like us do!

    Advertise the Vintech as 'Neve copies' in your brouchure.. F**k it, if everyone and their mother says it sounds like a 1073, you had better get a pair. Lets face it, what outboard EQ do you have? That is worth concidering.. Something else to twist with the pliars!
    :)
     
  16. Masternfool

    Masternfool Active Member

    I would tend to go with the Great river mp2- rather than the mp2-nv..if you want less color and more pristine. The mp2-nv is designed after the Neve color. I also use the vmp2 and fine it slightly colored,Then of course it has 6 tubes per side!! Best...Call Fletcher
     
  17. Chuck Jopski

    Chuck Jopski Guest

    Jay,

    I have a pair of the Vintech 1272's and love them. I don't find them dark at all. Thick and aggressive is more what comes to my mind without smearing the high end. I also have a pair of the VTMP-2's. I would say they are a bit 'darker' than the Vintech's. I usually don't end up using the VTMP's on drums or guitar unless something softer is called for.

    The only nitpick I may have about the Vintech is that if I really want to get a decent level to tape on quieter sources, they sometimes come up a bit shy in the gain department.

    Chuck
     
  18. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Originally posted by Chuck Jopski / Summerhouse Sound:

    The only nitpick I may have about the Vintech is that if I really want to get a decent level to tape on quieter sources, they sometimes come up a bit shy in the gain department.


    Their 1272 is 50db, the X73 is 70 db of gain. I find that 50db is usable for 99% of sources...I usually find that if it's not, the source is extremely quiet and can never exceed that level of being extremely quiet - ie no dynamics (or watch the levels on the multitrack go crazy). YOMV.
     
  19. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Originally posted by CyanJaguar:
    which of your pres will you say you currently like the best. I am seriously looking at the vmp2 for a very rich, colored sound and I was wondering how it compares to your others.

    I don't know. The 672's and VMP-2 get used all the time for some of the same things. The Dakings are colored, but no where near as thick in the low mids and low end. They also feel faster then the others.
     
  20. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Originally posted by Julian Standen:
    I'd investigate Fletchers offer, if I were you...

    The Amek 9098 - yes, same = good $*^t.. What eq could you use for overhead after it?

    Vintech sound v f sencible option 4 U.

    Pair of them on OH, rocking..

    Does an indie lable really know what a 1272 is? Serously? I really doubt it. Come on! That's a 'Tape Op thang' aint it? They dont read that! - only nerds like us do!

    Advertise the Vintech as 'Neve copies' in your brouchure.. F**k it, if everyone and their mother says it sounds like a 1073, you had better get a pair. Lets face it, what outboard EQ do you have? That is worth concidering.. Something else to twist with the pliars!


    I have a pair of Dakings, Orban 622B, and a pair of ASC's. Nothing really earth shattering but all very usable and solid EQ's. I did call Fletcher and we talked for a bit. It sounds interesting and I'm actually going to be in Boston in two weeks. Have you put your hands on the Phoenix piece?

    I'm not expecting an indie label or client to know what a 1272 is. But some of them know the name "Neve" and while it's not a deal breaker it's probably a good thing to have around.

    Part of what I miss about having my old slopped together 1272 wanna-be's was the weight and size that they added to a kick drum and things like guitars and bass. OTOH, I'm thinking that I should something faster (Neve's are big and slow, like a linebacker) and cleaner. It sounds like the Phoenix might have that covered but I'm wondering if it will have the same weight. What I'm afraid of is getting something that's in the middle of each and isn't clean enough an isn't big enough but doesn't totally suck. I'd rather get one big pre and one really clean pre. The Great River or Grace is on my list. One day I will own either one or the other. And a 1/2 dozen Distressors, and an API rack, and a 480L, and ...
     

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