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tracks moving in protools

Discussion in 'Pro Tools' started by MarkG, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. MarkG

    MarkG Guest

    I have had an increasing problem with tracks in protools being delayed by about 20-30ms after being recorded. Its almost hard to even notice sometimes, it just sounds like the singer was tired. This is completely random, but seems to happen on some projects more than others. Has anyone else ever seen this?
  2. BRH

    BRH Active Member

    It's delay and is normal with PTLE.
    Tracks don't move.
  3. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    This is due to ProTools LE not having Plugin Delay Compensation. The more plugins you use the more you will notice this. IF you have some cpu heavy plugs, you will notice this even more. There is a plug you can buy or I believe they will be including this in the latest version of Music Production Tool Kit.
  4. Guitarfreak

    Guitarfreak Well-Known Member

    Hueseph, are you able to freeze the tracks to offset this?
  5. Codemonkey

    Codemonkey Well-Known Member

    I daresay that would work.
    Can't think of any reason it won't (assuming PTLE CAN freeze tracks).
  6. MarkG

    MarkG Guest

    This is totally not normal with protools LE. I have been using it for 7 years and it only happens once and a while. If it was normal it would happen every time.
    This is also not due to plugins since there aren't any involved. This is when the track is initially recorded, and then played back before any precessing is done. However I have have experienced the plugin delay problem as well.
    I am aware of latency issues, and have eliminated them by splitting all signals at the preamp and running one into the monitor board and the other to protools.

    BRH, I suppose you are right when you assert that tracks don't move. They aren't actually moving. My problem is more accurately that they are being delayed as they are being recorded somehow.
  7. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    Do you have the play back engine buffers set high? If you have a setting of 512 or 1024 even though your are compensating for the delay via a split or direct monitoring, the play back may be delayed and so what you are recording is actually late. Could this be it? I'm taking stabs now.
  8. MarkG

    MarkG Guest

    Yes, I keep my buffers at 1024, and normally it is not a problem.
    I am reconsidering your thoughts about it being plugins. I had someone in the studio just yesterday who had the same problem at home. He thought that even though the channel had no plugins, maybe extensive use of plugins on other channels could just be bogging the computer down. I did notice a pattern that it was happening on projects that were half mixed and then adding more tracks after plugins were added.
    I assumed that by NOT monitoring in PT that latency issues were irrelevant. Could I actually be wrong!!???
  9. Music_Junky

    Music_Junky Active Member

    I think extensive use of plugins on others channels is causing your playback delay because you let it with buffer at 1024
  10. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    This is exactly what I was talking about. Plugin delay compensation affects the relationship between tracks. Because the plugins cause latency during playback and A/D conversion during recording itself causes some delay, the problem is compounded and the tracks are actually being recorded at a slight delay.

    Plugin delay compensation automatically adjusts the timing to compensate for the plugins and is applied to all tracks. For whatever reason, Digidesign chose not to make automatic plugin delay compensation a feature in ProTools LE. It can be bought as a PLUGIN (the irony) from a third party.

    Unfortunately, without plugin delay compensation, all you can do is align the tracks manually.
  11. MarkG

    MarkG Guest

    I guess the reason this only happens occasionally is that I usually record all of the tracks before I start adding plugins.
    Thanks for the help. This has been informative.
  12. why wouldn't pro tools have automatic delay compensation?
    all the other major DAW's do.
    just another way for them to nickel and dime you.
    digidesign makes you buy a plugin to combat there poor programing.
  13. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    PDC is included with ProTools HD. Just not with LE. Is that cheap? Yeah. You get what you pay for.
  14. EricIndecisive

    EricIndecisive Active Member

    Man the more I hear about pro tools and how you have to practically buy the ability to save and open a file separately makes me happier that I don't have it!
  15. i just find it strange that you have to run a plugin to compensate.
    Like it was an afterthought, its just silly.
  16. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    It is silly. Unfortunately, digidesign currently have the industry by the cahone's. They also have some of the most advanced hardware. That doesn't make them better than the other daws necessarily but it does give them the advantage. More users, more income. More income, better r and d. Avid has a history of disfunctional support systems.

    Incidentally, if I rmember correctly, Cubase used to be owned by Pinnacle who were susequently owned by Avid. IE; digidesign.

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