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Trident question

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by planet red, Dec 5, 2001.

  1. planet red

    planet red Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    Anyone know what the differences are in the 65, 70, and 80 series tridents? How would you classify their sound? I know how neves and api's sound, is it close to either of them? Also how are the eq's? Anyone think there might be something to gain by mixing thru one with good converters rather than mixdown in a daw?
     
  2. UTS

    UTS Guest

    Hi Planet Red,

    The Series 65 and 75 are basically the same desks, just the buses differ. 65 has 16 and 75 has 24. I guess the Series 80 is an older model and would be a step up from the 65 and 75.
    I have a Series 65 with 32 Channels and 16 Buses since the mid of the year in the studio, and when you come from a smaller, cheaper desk like Mackie or Behringer the difference is really night and day. The Trident sounds very round in a way - very full - almost too full on vocals (I always dip a little 250 HZ there), but you won't recognize any thinness or the brttle sound of modern "budget" desks. It has a good, solid low end which can even be improved with moding the power suplly (a thing I haven't done yet, though).
    For mixing dirty rock stuff, and metal and related I really prefer it over mixing in Pro Tools - the Trident adds a nice full character - but then this all depends on the project and the sound you want. The console has good pres, good, yet basic EQ and looks very cool.
    I think it must be one of the best budget desks around (got mine for 5k)...infinitely better than any Mackie, Behringer, Soundcraft whatever desk of today...

    Yours,

    UTS
     
  3. Recording Engineer

    Recording Engineer Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    planet red,

    Sorry for butting-in on your thread... I don't know if you're looking for a console, but I have a Trident-MTA Series 924 console I am trying to sell. I won't get into detail here as I've flooded the net with it enough (please pardon this one too). If you're at all interested, some info is in the For Sale forum. Only thought I'd mention it since you mentioned Trident. I would have Private Messaged you, but I don't know how often you look there.

    Regardless, please forgive the intrusion.

    I'd comment on the topic of your question, but I feel there are others here who could tell you more than I can; if anyone can.

    All I know is that a well maintained Trident 80B is the way I'd go if I could ever afford a semi-down-to-earth priced console of that age or older.
     
  4. Mad John

    Mad John Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Hello,

    All of this talk regarding "fine" bords is makeing me wish I had not gotten a Mackie 32/4 bus mixer!

    Oh well. :(

    Mackie mixers get hard slamed here and when I discovered that they are not friendly with Ballenced outbord gear (like Manley MU) , I felt cheated on the great Mackie professional claim.

    Wish reminds me this the old lesson:

    A man saw an add in the paper (in 1925) , it advertised, "Learn how to make a fortune and be ritch for $1.00"

    The man sent away for this information and did not get a responce for a whole year. Finally there was a reply in the mail that was sent to him from this company, it read: "Catch SUCKERS the way we do!"

    Gentalman, that is my great grandfathers story and I think of it often when I look at my Mackie mixer!

    Cheers!

    Mad John
    Zythum Studios

    "The present day Composer refuses to die!"
    Edgar Varese - 1921
     
  5. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2000
    John, while Makeez are not the be-all-end-all of mixers, this does not mean they are less than professional. You just have to approach it realizing their limitations. Many people who do this are able to put out professional quality product with it.

    When you know a connection is unbalanced, you need to modify cables in order to connect balanced gear to it. Being unbalanced doesn't make the board unprofessional at all. Blaming the gear for your lack of knowledge is.
     
  6. Uncle E

    Uncle E Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2001
    The 70 is the studio version of the trimix & both of them are very similar to the 80. According to John Oram:

    "...a later Trident Tri-mix module is identical to the Series 80 except for a slight alteration of the shelf frequencies of the top and bottom bands... The comparison is a good one though, and on first listen they appeared identical and the EQ switched out, they undoubtedly were. Plug anything into it and, just like the old Neve desk, you immediately feel good about the sound without having to resort to forced enhancements...."

    Obviously, though, his is not an unbiased opinion. ;)

    The 65 & 75 are later & different, I've never used either but people have always recommended the earlier ones to me. Still, you won't get an 80 for anything close to 5k.
     
  7. planet red

    planet red Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    I can get either a trimix or series 70 both for fairly good prices, and i could get it recapped and a big power supply for them. Plus i've heard some of jim williams from audio upgrades mods sound amazing, so i could get a couple channels and the master section done by him. The question is... the 70 or the trimix.
     
  8. Mad John

    Mad John Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Hey Ang,

    Thanks for your reply and I agree with you regarding the Mackies!

    It is about how you aproch it, I am learning that now!

    However, my statement pertains more to my initial disapointment in Mackies less than professional parts and features (via the unballenced stuff.)

    I do have a right to bitch Ang. I purchased my 32 channel bord in February of this year. Since then it has been repaired 4 (yes 4.) times!

    To top it off I am sending it back to them today as a matter of fact in exchange for a new one.

    So let me vent, at least for today. :D

    Mad John
    Zythum Studios

    "The present day Composer refuses to die!"
    Edgar Varese - 1921
     
  9. McAllister

    McAllister Guest

    The latest issue of TapeOp has a bit on Malcolm Toft. In it he talks about the difference between some of the Trident series. Check it out. Right from the horse's mouth.
     
  10. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Re: the Audio Upgrades mods, I understand the work is solid, but the chips they like to use don't always do it for everyone, with the general complaints being a thinned out and smaller sound, I believe. I couldn't tell you from personal experience, so definately do investigate, espescially before you pay for mods you might not want. I'd trust them on recap and general service, but watch the rechips.

    JTM, besides that service-wise you have a dog of a board, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with unbalanced boards. Some argue that it's better to be unbalanced then electronically balanced, as there's less junk in your signal path. And some people think transformers are anathema, so there goes transformer balanced. The only issue I've ever had is that it's a pain to rig it all to talk to eachother.

    Damn, my Tape Op isn't coming to my new address, going to have to buy it.

    Bear
     
  11. Jesse Skeens

    Jesse Skeens Guest

    Where can you find Tape Op other than a sub? I have a sub coming but missed the cutoff for the current issue by one day.

    Jesse
     
  12. Mad John

    Mad John Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Thanks Bear!

    That does make me feel better.

    This will be a main bord for a year or so.

    Peace!

    Mad John
    Zythum Studios

    "The present day composer refuses to die!" :p
     
  13. planet red

    planet red Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    I once heard a soundcraft 600 with a lot of audio upgrades mods and it sounded great. I never got to hear it with the original master section, but the difference between the modded and unmodded channels was huge. The eq was really nice, but i do know from talking to him he's all about 'transparency' which defeats the point of a trident i'd imagine. For some reason im really interested in modifying equipment, maybe ill just find someone around here and pay them to let me watch them work.

    I guess ill have to order the tape op issue. I subscribed once and got one copy and never got anymore. Lately ive been buying them but didnt get the last one.
     
  14. bnewsommfic

    bnewsommfic Guest

    This is a bit off the subject but I think transparency is a bit relative. For example I think a Trident 80 is more transparent than something like an SSL 9000j, but how the hell would I prove that? I mean the SSL has lower distortion figures and whatnot, but the Trident sounds more like how I hear things. Not hyped in a way making it more like how I might want things to sound, but just more like how I hear stuff normally. So I think how you percieve things affects what you regard as 'transparent'. Also on the subject of Mackies, just since the inserts on the Mackie are unbalanced doesn't make it 'un-pro', in fact many pro-boards(including the Trident 80 I think) have un-balanced or quasi-balanced(for lack of a better term)inserts. The big boards usually just handle better under abuse and mismatching. Also though I hate to admit it, a track I did was re-mixed by Nick DiDia at home on his Mackie 32/8, and his mix sounded better than mine done on a MCI 636. So ears and musicianship still reign supreme, although good gear really helps.
     
  15. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Originally posted by bnewsommfic:
    This is a bit off the subject but I think transparency is a bit relative. For example I think a Trident 80 is more transparent than something like an SSL 9000j, but how the hell would I prove that? I mean the SSL has lower distortion figures and whatnot, but the Trident sounds more like how I hear things. Not hyped in a way making it more like how I might want things to sound, but just more like how I hear stuff normally.

    Wow. I would call an 80B or 80C anything but transparent. I'm really not an SSL fan but they are cleaner and more "transparent" then a Trident.

    The 65, 75 and 24 were the budget Tridents. Still expensive in their day but they were built to go against things like Soundcraft and A&H rather then Neotek and MCI. A series 80 makes a 65 seem like a bit of a toy. They don't have as much in common as you would think. Having said that, I like my 65 which is a 24x16x16.
     
  16. subspace

    subspace Guest

    Choosing between a Trimix and a Series 70 will depend largely on what configuration you need. The Trimix was released in '81, a year after the Series 80, as a mobile console based on the 80's electronics. The differences between the Series 80 and the Trimix input modules were the 12-bus switches were reduced to 8 individual, the hi shelf was changed from 8k/12k switchable to 10k fixed, the low shelf from 80/120 to 100 fixed, and the stereo aux was removed leaving 4 mono total. The Trimix came in a 16 or 24 module frame and there was an optional matching patchbay sidecar. The standard large configuration was 18 input modules, 4 dual submaster/tape monitor modules, a dual master/tape monitor module, and an aux master module. This gives you a 18x8x10x2 board. The submaster and master modules were identical save for the assign to master switch, of course, and each one provided 2 tape inputs with pan, level, mute, PFL, plus the 4 sends. The aux master module also provided oscillator, PFL, control room, and talkback controls. There were an assortment of additional modules available including an 8 monitor return module, an 8x8 matrix module, and a studio playback module. Trimix frames could be interconnected to share buses, auxes, PFL, etc. and one PSU could power two 24 module frames.
    In '83, Trident released a hybrid Trimix in a studio frame with built-in patchbay. This was the Series 70, which used the exact same modules and PSU with a couple slight alterations. The frame was wired for 16 buses so the 8 bus switches were modded to select pairs. The master module wasn't used, so the master faders were added to the bottom of the studio playback module. The configuration was 28 input modules, a new 4 channel echo return module with 2 band EQ, an aux master module, the studio playback module, 8 dual submaster/tape monitor modules, and an 8 monitor return module. This 28x16x24x2 board included a stand and had a desktop in front of the patchbay.
    So the Series 70 was a larger configuration in a fixed format frame. The cool trick with the original Trimix was that any module could be located in any position and multiple frames could be linked. I have two 24 module frames with 32 input modules, 6 dual submaster/tape monitor modules, 2 dual master/tape monitor modules, and 2 aux modules configured as a 32x8x16x2 board. I use two PSUs, one for each frame so they're running at half capacity. If you'd like pictures or schematics of any of these Trident's, just ask and I could post them. HTH
     
  17. subspace

    subspace Guest

    As to your original question, I use my Trident for mixing DAW tracks rather than doing it digitally. The DAW can play them back at the proper relative volumes, but the Trident actually mixes them. The EQ is very cool as well. HTH
     
  18. drundall

    drundall Guest

    I used a series 70 and wasn't really into it. Upgraded to an 80C and it was night and day. I really like the sound it imparts to digitally tracked audio. I do rock stuff, though. If you need pristene clarity with that SSL top end, it's not going to deliver...

    Other may disagree, just my experience.
     
  19. planet red

    planet red Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    What was were the differences between the 70 and 80? Was it mostly in the features or in the sound? If it was the sound, how would you describe it?
    Subspace, i was looking at a trimix that had two boards joined together to make a 32x8x16. It looks pretty cool, but i think im going to go for the 70, because itll come with a large patch bay. Thanks for all the info everyone's given so far.
     
  20. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Watch out for joined "vintage" boards, some of them had passive summing with lots of make-up gain (I believe common in 80X8 Neves?), and this places some limits on how many channels you can sum without seriously compromising the audio. Don't know how the TriMix did it, but if you have any doubts, try to find the shop that did the work and get a feel whether they knew what they were doing.

    Bear
     

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