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Understanding and optimizing Ashly xover help?

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by mikehende, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    Hey guys, I just purchased an Ashly XR 1001 unit with the intention of using it in a 3-way mono old school setup trying to get back the sound I had back in the 80s. I have used analog xovers in the past but to be quite honest, I would simply set everything to where it sounded good to me and that was that but now I would like to understand the basics if you guys can help me with this please?

    First let's start with the other equipment I will be connecting to this oxer? My rack is full so I am intending on using 2 Crown 3600's, one for bass and the other, one channel for mids and the other channel for highs. My Stanton RM80 Mixer will connect to the xover. The speakers are Sonic Dual 18 subs:

    Sonic R218 Sub

    and the old school Peaveys SP2:

    (Dead Link Removed)

    I have attached a screenshot of the 3-way mono setup taken from the guide. First step is setting the low frequency, since the sub's info is
    40 - 7khz, 102 db 1w/1m, I am thinking to run this sub somewhere between 40-100hz? What's the best frequency Range setting for this and also which setting is best for the "Response" setting and why please so I can understand it"?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    In a rush I will jump in first and ramble a bit. I'm sure others will find this topic a fun one. Live sound is where I started.
    I'm assuming we are talking live sound here or PA or passive full range monitoring?

    Nice cabinet. I'd be rolling that baby off starting at 250hz. I love front loaded cabs like this.

    If people think mixing in a studio is hard, you need to try live sound lol. Thats where you get your chops. And this is why once again, I say gear ( the right gear) matters.

    Besides skill, equipment always makes the band sound bad, good, better or best!
    If you don't have great gear to shape or control the sound of any room, you are going to work your ass off to say the least. The band suffers everytime the sound sucks. And, the audience rarely blames the room or sound man.

    In the 70/80's X-overs were my best friend and this is why in a nutshell.
    I used these and other x-overs for 2 decades (70's 80's and into the 90's).

    You usually start out by setting x-overs to the specs of the woofer/driver/tweeter and the cabinet design first, then, tweak each section to taste which is varied from room to room and cabinet.
    Standard stetting were usually:
    low = 250hz @ 12db slope,
    mids= > 1.2 k ,
    high ( tweeters), vary dependent on what you are using.

    Once I got my chops up and could handle a bigger rig, I moved to a front loaded 4 way stereo systems with 31 band graphs on each point.
    So at my best game I had 6 Yamaha 31 for the FOH, gates on channels and a few comp on the 2-bus. Thats when it got fun. The graphs where pretty flat but there to catch peaks or tweaks.

    Speakers and woofer will start to roll off at sweet points and that's where you set them.

    31 band graphs are useful to tweak the roll off hump where both speakers meet but you can also use the cross-over to go past this sweet spot to get a different or optimized approach to rolling. Blending the roll-off via the 12/18/24 db slope is another way as well. So, these x-overs were really flexible.

    Between all your settings, choose the best ways to keep your sound even and natural with less eqing. If you are needing a lot of eqing, to me more than 3db was my rule, you may have a bad mix or something needing addressing in the console or stage.

    Your volumes and freq area of each speaker is another area to adjust and this is a critical adjustment as well. The key is to get the PA all balanced where you aren't using excessive eqing. Using a good mix from a CD was another reference.

    From room to room, I pretty much leave the mix in the console and go to the x-overs ( freq points, roll-of curve and volumes) first before I touch my mix. That is of course, once its mixed right.
    The console mix is the last place I tweak. If the mix sounds great example on studio monitors, that pretty mush tells me that the PA is where I go. But, if a CD sound great on the PA, then the console mix and stage volumes need more care.
    Gates and volume of the band is also another huge factor so make sure you deal with the stage.
    Man, lots of things to discuss on this thread.

    Does that help?
     
  3. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    Yeah, that is a lot of info for me to absorb all at once [thanks], first thing, this is for my Home rig which I use in my Garage and backyard and is not for live band sound, only for DJ type or playback use. Let's start with the low's settings please? Wouldn't a setting of 250hz be more suitable for mid-bass rather than low end?
     
  4. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Perfect response :)

    Sorry, I didn't look at your whole set-up while I'm doing a bunch of other things here in the process, so I gave you a bunch of info to start. You brough me back to the old days and I got all excited lol!
    .

    The image is a bit small for my old eyes but this is the skinny for setting up the sound with that unit.
    Keep your amp(s) wide open and use the x-over volumes (Mains) for adjusting each cabinet. Make sense?

    Put the low point at around 250hz and adjust the main volume until it sounds smooth.
    Same for the mids.



    The freq adjustment you see is for the notch , where it starts to drop in volume and how wide it reaches on either side of that point. Its a notch filter. The wider it is, the more bass will travel into the mids. So, you get a big bump there which doesn't sound good when the bass cabinet goes past 250 hz. Use your ears for that and use the main volume to control how much bass is being amplified.

    This is a hard thing to describe but you need to use your ears. If its really boomy, its too much of something. If you are getting too much feedback, turn the volume down. Once you have the volume under control, use the low/mid freq filter to shape the cutoff point. This section "tightens" up the bass. Play a bass ( a keyboard sine wave works great) and listen to where the peaks jump out. Its a process of using all these pots to get the sound smooth and proficient.

    Is this helping?
     
  5. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Awesome! my bad, I need to read your post better on a larger monitor and start over.

    Is this the one you have, I didn't even think they still made these old gems? These are simple and perfect for what you are doing.

    xr-1001-front.jpg
     
  6. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Ya, up to 250 hz or so... Your sound will be smooth. If you want that sub, I would still x it over there and invest in a graph that will push the 40hz. Then use the mid to go up to 1.2, then let that horn do the rest. Thats what I would do.
     
  7. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    Yes, that is the one I have. Ok so for the lows Range adjustment, how do I get the 250 hz since the lowest number I am seeing is 400?
     
  8. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Set it to 3way mono,
    The Normal +10 appears to do that.

    See the Response range

    Then use the Freg range to tighten up the sound.
     
  9. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I'm guessing that the 2k is also 200 hz. Is that what you see in the manual?
     
  10. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    So if I turn the know to the 400 mark then press in both Norm and +10 buttons this will set the frequency to 250 exactly or will this set the frequency to 40hz?
     
  11. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Not sure but it also says (40) so one of the buttons will do this. I'm thinking Normal is all that should be selected in the mono mode.

    The one that is off in the image, what is that?

    Its should be very apparent but make sure your mains are turned down while you are experimenting.
     
  12. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    I don't have the manual so I can't read deeper into it but I'm also thinking when Mono is selected, this would switch the value to 40, not 400.
     
  13. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Ah, guessing again but .... when in mono, the right side is your upper mids. The left side is lower . - 10 value now. Make sense?
     
  14. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    well, I am thinking if the +10 pressed in will set to 40 then how would you get to 250?
     
  15. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    dial to 2.5. 250 should = 2.5.
     
  16. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    But, do not select +10. That to me would be adding zero's. My guess is when you are in Mono mode and in Normal, the X-Over is now a 3 way mono and the left and righr sides become the low mids and highs. Automatically defaulting to 40hz. But, I could be wrong.
    The sound should be very obvious. The sound will go from being boomy to THUMP!
     
  17. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    Since there isn't a 2.5 mark then it's just a "guessing" game to set the knob between the 400 mark and zero, is this right?
     
  18. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    yes! They were never precise.

    when it sounds right for you then, use the Freq Range to tighten up the notch until its a good THUMP. The Response is similar to a wide or really wide bell curve on an EQ. But a bit like a hpf where the drop point will go from 6 db per octave to 24.
     
  19. mikehende

    mikehende Active Member

    Just to go off topic here, if you wanted to be very precise with your settings, newer model digital xovers like the driveracks, would those units give you a precise setting like if you wanted to set to 200hz, would a unit like that do this if it has a digital readout?
     
  20. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    added a bit so I re posted.

    The Response Range will go from 6 to 24 db per octave drop. More drastic (24 db) will put more direct energy within the range to that speaker. This is a good or bad adjustment that is also determined ( good better best), and should be set to the specs of the speaker and... the enclosure. But, rules are meant to be broken so depending on the effect you are going for, you may want to use those bins for subs around ( 40 to 120) persay. If your mids are crapping out though, you will want to re-leave them by raising more low end energy into the subs. less into the mids.

    These x-overs are great and I prefer them over the more digital ones because they are smooooth and logical, very adjustable. They are simple, easy to dial in and leave or control a lot of things as I mentioned in my first post. Make sense?

    To answer your question, I don't know much about the other you mention but I do know a lot about these. I personally prefer these but there is newer technology including very advanced time delays that is a whole new topic.

    I say keep this. Ashley has always been a winner. These will teach you how to listen.
     

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