1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

upgrading the recording studio

Discussion in 'Recording' started by White Rose, Mar 13, 2002.

  1. White Rose

    White Rose Guest

    Back in '94 I owned a pretty good analog 8 track studio. I left the industry for a while and am now going to be building a new studio that I want to be as professional as possible, something to really build upon. By September, I will have about $10,000 to work with. I know what I want in mics and most other items, but I would like some advice on which direction to go with a console, outboard effects, and multitrack recorder.

    Considering the console. I have $1800 to work with. Should I go analog or digital? If I go analog, I was thinking something like a used Mackie 8 bus or a new Behringer MX9000. I would like to eventually automate and I don't quite know what these units can do, so that is a consideration. If I go digital....?????

    I have $1400 allotted for outboard, including all reverbs, gates, compressors and pre amps. Not much I know, but its what I have.

    So much has changed in the multitrack world since I was around. I have about $2000 to work with. I was thinking of going with something like Sonar,a couple of used ADATs and some sort of interface for Sonar. Am I headed down the right track, or should I go with a straight DAW system and forget the ADATs?

    Any response will be appreciated as I am making myself sick over these decisions. I just don't want to make a big mistake in starting out.
  2. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Feb 10, 2001
    You didn't say if you already own a fast recent vintage computer. If you do, maybe you should forget the ADATs and go with a Native Pro Tools, Digital Performer, or the like. That way, since you really have almost no money budgeted for outboard, you can get by withplug-insfor reverb, gates, and compression for a while. Since you can mix internally, you might not even need an 8-bus mixer. A $1000 four-bus might do just fine. With what money you do have for outboard, you can focus on getting one or two good mic preamps instead.

    Even if you need to buy a new computer, it may be cheaper in the long run. For under $2000 you can get amazing computers these days.

    You also didn't specify about how many tracks you will be needing to record simultaneously. If you are doing a whole band at once, you probably will want 16 - that means more money in the interface department.

    At any rate, I would avoid ADATs in favor of either a computer based DAW or a dedicated Hard Disk recorder. The editing advantage is obvious, but you will also benefit from the difference in maintenance costs, annoying lock-up lag time, and peace of mind about your tapes not getting eaten up by tempermental machines.

    If at all possible, amidst the quantity you are buying, it's good to have one or two pieces of quality. Starting out, this typically might be in the microphone department. One decent large diaphragm condenser for your vocal tracks (with one nice preamp, if possible) will be money worth spent. When not doing vocals, of course, they can be used for lots of other stuff too. Gradually you can upgrade the weaker links of your chain with other quality purchases, as economics allow.
  3. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Honestly, I'd say in your assigned budget, to hell with the mixer except if you need it for monitoring, in which case the dinkiest Mackie or Spirit will do. As much as DAW mixing is maligned, the money you'd be able to put into a dedicated unit wouldn't do you much better. Spend it on a good control board or something to improve your signal path instead.

    If I was starting over right now, and I wanted to be open to the public and seem professional, I'd probably do a PC DAW system based on Logic or Nuendo, in either case with RME interfaces/converters. If you can lay hands on an RME Multiface (I understand they are in demand) they are a pretty all-inclusive unit with MIDI, wordclock, tdif and lightpipe? i/o, with 8 a/d and 8 d/a's of reasonably good quality built in. Not the unit you want if you will eventually need more than 16 ins or outs at once, but it'll get you going and then some. Pick a DAW to suit your taste. Nuendo should play fine with Steinberg's Houston control board, and Logic has its own dedicated controller. I'd prefer mixing with these to mixing with a mouse.

    If you need to import from ADAT you can rent them, but I wouldn't want to own one for fear of the ruin they often bring.

    Scour these forums for cheap gear advice, there's droves of it. If you don't already know, the RNC compressor is amazing, and under $200 a pop. Get a couple to use before you're in digital, even if you haveplug-ins Good preamps are essential to good sound, but opinions are all over the place. Sytek should get you four usable channels for under $1000 if you look around. The Grace 101 is very high quality and transparent at $600 a channel. Speck ASC eq's are wonderfulky clean, surgical, and useful, at around $600. Outboard digital stuff is hard to recomend, it seems to all be about personal preference.

    If you can budget for it, the Empirical Labs Fatso Jr is highly recomended for digital recording. Some claim to only miss tape for that 456 smell.

    Good luck.

  4. White Rose

    White Rose Guest


    It sounds like maybe I should shift things around a bit to concentrate more on DAW.
    As far as the console goes, I just don't want people coming in and laughing there butt's off when they see a dinky little thing sitting there. I know that the industry has changed, in fact it has passed me by, but the day I open the doors, I want to be taken somewhat seriosly (within reason), and a good large console can help. And yes I know, the size of the board means nothing. I used to have a Carvin 8 bus with a huge footprint. What a piece of crap.

    As far as an interface, I would like to be able to input 12-16 tracks at a time. Have any idea what thats going to cost me?

    I was thinking of going with an Octava MK319 for the large diaphragm. Cheap, I know, but I love the 012's and I've heard that it should work fairly well.

    Bear's Gone Fission

    Thank you for your response.

    Both you and littledog have said that the mixer is not as important as what I am making it out to be. This is such new thinking to me. When I left the industry, Mackie 8 buses were huge and ADATs were just getting big and still had the harsh sounding stigma attached to them. I feel like I left the planet and came back in a new age because everything is so different.

    Anyway, what would Logic or Nuendo cost me?

    Thanks for your advice on the gear. I am constantly looking. My biggest problem is that I am having to learn so much as I go. But this forum is helping me a great deal.
    The RNC compressor sounds really good. How much does the Gatso Jr run for?

    Thanks for your responses guys.
  5. kent powell

    kent powell Active Member

    Mar 30, 2001
    Re: the digital side, I'm sure several of us can chime in with more helpful recommendations once you tell us about the computer specs around which you will build your DAW. If you have an existing rig you feel will be worthy of using as a tracking/mixing machine, telling us the CPU, motherboard etc. will help us make better suggestions.

    PS-The RNC is the only clean compressor in the sub $1,000.00 group. Its bang-to-buck ratio is untouchable. The makers are planning to release a mic pre shortly from which we all expect similarly great things. I'm leaving my wallet in my pocket till then.

    PPS-ADAT is over. Your limited funds will be better spent elsewhater.

    PPPS-If you gotta have a console, I'd say go analog, unless...unless you find one with such good analog to digital conversion it allows you to save some $ on the interface.
  6. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Feb 10, 2001
    We're getting to the point in the discussion where it really becomes imperative to know at least what platform you have or might purchase (Mac vs. PC).

    Here's the whole thing about mixing in DAW - get yourself the largest screen monitor you can afford, or in some systems you might opt for a dual monitor set-up, in which caser each one could be a little smaller. The point is, what you (and your clients) will be focusing on is a picture of a virtual mixer on your computer monitor. With all the cool real-time automation as well. Just explain to them that what they are seeing on the monitor IS your mixer, and you can even lie a little bit and mumble about how real mixers are somewhat obsolete, etc. Hopefully they'll believe you!

    While I agree with almost everything Bear said, at least as one possible way to go, be warned that the FATSO is probably not in your budget at this time - and I would not recommend it as an option given that you need a lot of much more essential bases covered first. FATSO is more like icing for your cake. Good mics and preamps would be first, and a close second would be a decent near-field monitoring system. Then maybe a few choice software plugins next.

    I haven't heard the large diaphragm Oktavas since they redesigned the grill, but the orignal design was the worst sounding mic I ever heard. Or at least mine was - maybe a function of that famous Russian quality control - mine made a C1000 sound like a C12 by comparison.

    I would see if you could check out the Grooove Tubes line, or Rodes, or the Shure KSM-27, or Studio Projects, or almost anything else before buying the Oktava. The MC012 small diaphragms can be excellent mics, (if you get good ones) but I'm skeptical about their large diaphragms.
  7. chessparov

    chessparov Active Member

    Dec 16, 2001
    Orange County, CA
    Do you guys think the IZ Radar setup would be
    worth a look? The list price is about $5000.00,
    and the sound quality/ease of use is supposed to
    be excellent.
  8. White Rose

    White Rose Guest

    Well, if I am going to go exclusively DAW, which it looks like I am, I have to completely rethink my computer situation. Basically, from what I am hearing so far, I should shift some of the money I am going to allot for a board into a computer, and all of the money allotted for the ADATs into a DAW plus accessories.

    So, I am hoping that you fine folks can lead me and guide me in building a computer system. Let me reiterate--I have little experience in the DAW world, and have no clue as to building the system, including the computer and all of its components. But I want to do it right, and I am in no particular hurry (I have six months to get this built).

    My only real competitor in this area has a very, very nice studio and uses Pro Tools. I have been involved in business for a long time, and I am a real proponant building business relationships with competitors, so I would like to have a system that is somewhat compatable with his. I do not know whether I can save a file from various DAWs that could be recognized in Pro Tools, but that is what I would like to be able to do. So, although this is not the most important aspect of deciding on whether to go with Mac or PC, it is a consideration. This is a longwinded way of saying that I don't quite know which way to go with a computer. Help!

    I actually do have a fairly new Compaq laptop 700 speed, but I don't think it will work. I would like to get a system that is dedicated just to recording.

    Here is a list of what I currently have in mind to get this project going. After you get done laughing at my naivity, let me know what you would change.

    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Console $900.00 (Maybe an Alesis Studio 32. I know, I know, I'm stuck on this console thing. I think I need detox.)
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Computer, DAW, Interface & Accessories $2300-$3200. I would like to stay closer to $2300 (Stop laughing).
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Mics $1030.
      4ea 57s
      2ea Oktava 012
      1ea Large Diaphram ???????????
      2 ea AKG C1000S (Overheads)
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Misc $1300 (Booms, Cables, DI Boxes, Patch Bay, Power Conditioners etc)
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Mixdown $1200 (1 CD Burner, 1 DAT (do I need this? If not, I'll take $600 bucks and put it somewhere else.)
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Monitors $500. I was thinking of the new Alesis Active Monitors, but I'm not sure. I believe that I would like to go with active though.
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Headphones $475 I figure to need about 7 sets to start with + an amp (Rolls RA62HA 6 channel looks ok.
    • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Outboard $1400. I have no idea what direction to go here, except for the RNC Compressor.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, with that kind of setup, I'm looking at $9100-$10000. I'm sure that after you all see this that you will see a need for cutting and pasting the $ allotments that I have. I am open and anxious for this exact thing. Thank you for your time.
  9. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Feb 10, 2001
    "Console $900.00 (Maybe an Alesis Studio 32. I know, I know, I'm stuck on this console thing. I think I need detox.)"

    Nothing wrong with that. Check out the Allen & Heath Mixmaster or the Studiomaster Trilogy as probably better alternatives in the same price range. Crest has an excellent mixer for about $500 more.

    "[*] Computer, DAW, Interface & Accessories $2300-$3200. I would like to stay closer to $2300 (Stop laughing)."

    I'll let someone who knows more about this comment.

    "[*] Mics $1030.
    4ea 57s
    2ea Oktava 012
    1ea Large Diaphram ???????????
    2 ea AKG C1000S (Overheads)"

    C1000's pretty much suck on everything. You'd be better off with 4 of the 012's, or maybe those Behringer Omnis everyone is always talking about that are super cheap.

    "[*] Misc $1300 (Booms, Cables, DI Boxes, Patch Bay, Power Conditioners etc)
    [*] Mixdown $1200 (1 CD Burner, 1 DAT (do I need this? If not, I'll take $600 bucks and put it somewhere else.)"

    I can't imagine any real reason why you need a DAT machine. The few times you might find you really need one, you may be able to borrow or rent one. The CD burner is the way to go now-a-days.

    "[*] Monitors $500. I was thinking of the new Alesis Active Monitors, but I'm not sure. I believe that I would like to go with active though."

    Event also makes some nice inexpensive actives.
  10. For a digital audio sequencer, I'd absolutely go with Nuendo. It's more expensive than Logic or Sonar, but it's very intuitive, and extremely powerful. Plus, it offers OMF import/export so that you're compatible with that Pro Tools guy.

    I'd use an RME Hammerfall 9652, or maybe the new DSP. The RME cards work wonderfully with Nuendo, and allow very low latency.

    For AD/DA conversion, I'd research Creamware's new interface, the A16 Ultra

    As far as mixers go, I'd look into that Allen & Heath, or maybe a Spirit, by Soundcraft. Since, you'll be using the mixer for preamps, avoid going too cheap.

    There's a company called DAS Audio, which manufactures the "Monitor 8". It got great reviews in the Pebruary 2001 issue of Mix Magazine. They're not shielded, so you'd either have to use LCD computer monitors, or be careful with your placement. To read the review, go to: http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?releaseid=5553&magazinearticleid=64753&siteid=15&magazi neid=141

    I have to agree with LittleDog about the C1000's. Don't bother. The money would be better spent on a matched set of MC012's from The Sound Room or something like that. For a large-diaphragm condenser, I recommend the Studio Projects C1, or the C3, which is a multi-pattern version.

    Oh, and that $600 you wanted to put towards a DAT... Put that towards a 1/2" Stereo tape deck for mixdowns. It will make a difference.
  11. Luke

    Luke Guest

    I think there would be much less of a learning curve if you went with an Alesis hd24 and something like a Mackie 24'8bus. The hd24 is compatable with adats and make it very easy to import and export tracks to and from other studios. You can get an hd24 for under $2000 and a Mackie 8 bus for $1500-$1800. This setup is as simple as analog, which you already have experience with.You can pick up an adat for dirt cheap if you look around. I do not think adat is dead, if for no other reason just because there are so many of them out there. It is so easy to give someone a rough mix on an adat tape and have them add there ideas and dump them back into the hd24. Lots of musicians own adats. With the $6500 or so you have left over you could get some 57s an RNC or two, a pair of small diaphram condencers,like used sm81s
    a large diaphram condenser or two,a nice pre like a Great River,Vintech,Grace Audio, there are lots of others, or the Drawmer 1969 which also has nice compression in it. I've heard that the 1969 works well as a 2-bus compressor also. I would check into a set of powered monitors the Mackies or the Event 20/20bas are nice, and don't forget to budget for cable and pathbays.You should still have enough for a few descent effects units. These are just ideas for equipment which I have used and had good luck with. If your into the computer thing that's cool too, I just thought I would give you an alternative. To me, walking into a studio and seeing a computer is like walking into an office.
    Everybody has a computer.
    Good Luck and have fun,
  12. White Rose

    White Rose Guest

    Hey guys,

    Thanks for all of the input. I am seriously going to utilize something from what each of you have said, and if you have more to say, say it! This is awesome. I definitely have more information than what I started with. One thing that I have gleened from this conversation is that going with a DAW is not going to be a simple process, and that I may make some mistakes there. You know what is amazing, is how fast this industry is changing. Some of what seemed great and the industry savior a few years ago is now proven garbage. So, it will be interesting with what develops.

    With what I have heard, I am probably going to go somewhere in this direction:

    I think I can get a Mackie 8 bus or Studiomaster on ebay or something for around a 1000 bucks if I am patient enough. I like Mackie as little as the rest of you, but I have seen some pretty good deals out there, and I'm sure I can resell it for at least $1.50 when the time comes to upgrade (maybe to a Behringer hehehehehehwahhahaha).

    Question: Does the Mackie 8bus have ok enough preamps to get me by in that department? (When I had the studio in '94, I never used a preamp)
    If not, how many channels of preamps am I going to need?

    Nuendo for about 500 (if I am patient enough, I might have a line on a used one right now).
    A computer for about a 1000.
    Interface for around 600-900.

    Question: What else should I consider here to make sure my DAW gets up and running?

    Probably a Studio Projects C1, 6 57's and two MC012's. I am totally old school. I love 57's.

    I'll probably pick up some Mackie monitors or the Event 20/20s when I see a good enough deal. Does anyone have a preference with these?

    Although I think I am going to go with Nuendo, the comment about the hd24 has perked my interest. Is the learning curve the only reason that I would go with this, or are there other advantages.

    About my learning curve, it will be a huge curve, but I want to build this studio for the future as well as for the now (so if this is true, why the 8 bus?--I don't know, I just don't know).

    About the 1/2 2 track. I have a 1/2" Otari four track that has been used for about 20 total hours--premo condition. I asked an engineer last year if he knew where I could get rid of it, and his eyes lit up and he said, "Keep it! Turn it into a two track." Now, Angus, you are telling me somewhat of the same thing. Why, with the digital world we have today, would I need a 1/2" 2 track.

    Thanks again folks.
  13. The HD24 IS very easy. It has 24 analog Ins and Outs, and behaves like a regular recording deck. However, it's no more compatible with ADAT than an RME card. You'll still need an ADAT deck to read the tapes.

    Personally, I went from Analog tape to a DAW about 8 months ago. I was already familiar with computers, so the transition was not too bad. I used cakewalk, which I thought was awful, and then was introduced to Nuendo by a friend of mine. I was floored by how simple and powerful it was! Plus it looked WORLDS better than Cakewalk.

    As far as the Mackie Pres go, Yes, they ARE good enough, however, they should be the newer VLZ version... You WILL want to get a couple outboard preamps to augment the Mackie. Perhaps the Peavey VMP-2, or the Universal Audio M610, for some seriously tubey sounds.

    Not bad mic choices, though you may want to get an RE20, or MD421, for something with better low end than a 57, in case you need it.

    Between the Mackies and the 20/20's, I'd DEFINITELY go Mackie.

    A LOT of people are mixing down to tape, To add the warmth and harminics it offers. And I think it's to add a little hiss. Hey, I like hiss. A few weeks ago, I listened to a blank reel of 456. It was heaven.
  14. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    If you're going DAW, you probably don't need that much board, so you could go smaller/higher quality. Apparently Crest has some buzz, and the hype for the current Spirit by Soundcraft (M series?) is interesting. Or look for an old Neotek, some of which came in very small configurations. I just think there are better ways to spend money than on a Mackie, no matter how good the deal looks.

    The preamps are the best part of a Mackie, and they are usable, but I'd hate to subsist on them. The typical recomendation is to get two good clean channels of pre (i.e. Great River MP-2 or John Hardy M-1) to get key basics and use on all overdubs, so you don't have ugly coloration stacking up on every track. The Grace would probably serve as well, and I know you can live on the Sytek alone if you have to.

    I don't buy the HD-24. It's basically ADAT data recorded on a hard-disk, with none of the editing features the other hard disk recording systems offer. I'd look at the Fostex systems if you wanted this sort of setup. (Radar was mentioned. Great system, but it'll kill you budget.) The big advantage of this sort of rig is that you can work it almost exactly like a tape recorder, or go deeper with editing if you want to.

    For DAW systems, Nuendo has an edge for combining power and ease of use. If you don't live and breathe digital editing, I wouldn't mess with Logic.

    Monitors and mics: my best advice is to get well acquainted with the search function for these forums, as these are all about taste, as transducers are the least perfect part of the chain.

  15. ¿HuH?

    ¿HuH? Guest

    There is another part of RO called DAWworld that deals with building dedicated computers for workstations and the problems inherent with hardware compatability.
    The moderater of the computing forum Opus2000 is great and he has come up with a monster motherboard, processor, memory cofiguration that is affordable and kicks butt.
    Here is a link for ease:

    (Dead Link Removed)

    good luck!
  16. stedel

    stedel Guest

    G'day there. Well there's a lot of good advice up here.
    As ¿HuH? says, check out Opus's forum.

    Think an Art and desigm school called Bahaus i.e. the beauty and elegance of minimalism.

    A couple of points:

    1. littledog's tip about spending money on mic's is a good one. If you're happy with the ones you've got cool.

    2. "Native" systems are OK, but you are going to need a newer and fairly powerful computer, and budget to get as much RAM as you can (hmm sounds like an old Susie Quatro song). Nuendo has quite a good reputation..but for a Native software system it is relatively expensive, plus there's no way you can run a Native system like Nuendo without a Very good and powerful computer - seriously. If you decide on Nuendo..then yes, check out the RME stuff, particularly for your I/O interface - because we all probably assume you're gonna forget about ADAT.

    3. There are lower cost systems that provide additional DSP's on their PCI cards, much like ProTools. Somebody mentioned Creamware AD/DA converters. Convertors are like mic's - fairly critical in getting a good sound right from the start. Creamware also make a "Studio In A Box" system that operates like a ProTools system. It's called "Pulsar 11" and comes with a number of Sharc
    DSP chips, some good quality on board synths, and a fairly powerful and well thought out "virtual mixer". And it runs 96kHz. It also integrates seamlessly with Cubase VST32 - itself now quite a powerful little tool, which will also run at 96k's..
    This system, the Pulsar and Cubase also gives you the option of accessing quite a variety of plug ins
    both Creamwares own third party suppliers and Steinbergs VST format. (You may have gathered I think this is a system I think you should seriously check out - for one thing you can getaway with a less powerful and older computer..but if you go with Macs it would have to be at least a G4 and nuthin' under 500mHz.).

    4. Personally, and this is MHO, on your budget I would forget about any outboard mixer. What's the point? Unless you get a really good second hand deal not much out there can cut it for that price range, although some people do praise the quality of the newer Mackie mic pre's, so that might help save costs if you like the sound of these. All these systems, Nuendo, Pulsar 11, Cubase etc. come with their own virtual mixers, so you can getaway with using a keyboard and a mouse, plus later on you might like to look at a Midi controller.

    5. Which ever way you go, it sounds like learning curve territory. A good site to visit for info re
    Digital recording is http://www.digido.com Might save you some money on Valium scripts.

    6. Oh yes. Where are you gonna store all these 32 track wonders you're gonna create? Yup, additional
    hard drives for storage, and maybe a program like sNorton's utilities. Watch that fragmentation there!!!!

    Hmm. But don't visit Sweetwater's Forums...they think Creamware stuff is **** - unlike British mag Computer Music who think it's the bee knees. I had to work with the Pulsar 11 on a Mac for some months last year and never ever experienced the problems Sweetwater talk about, in fact the opposite. Very stable, very reliable. But then I like Jaguar cars.............. :cool:

    And Jaguars are very cool.

    On second thoughts maybe you should visit Sweetwaters site. I'm quite intersted. Oh yeah?
    So the Scope platform is garbage?
  17. lorenzo gerace

    lorenzo gerace Active Member

    Jan 27, 2002

    If you're leaning toward the DAW side, why don't go for a 001/Pro Tools LE system instead of Nuendo? This will give you: compatibility with the other guy in your area, since LE sessions are fully transferable to TDM systems, an industry standard format (Pro Tools), a system that's ready to go from day one, having a converter interface with 8 analog I/O at 24 bits, 8ADAT I/O and 2 SPdif I/O, which summed together and used in conjunction with an analog to ADAT converter like RME will give you 18 inputs for recording; zero Sw/Hw compatibility issues, since they're both from the same manufacturer; plenty of expanadability with the coming PT 5.2 release.
    This may seem like a commercial ad for Digidesign, but I based my project studio around such a system, and with a powerfull computer and a control surface (Radical Technologies SAC-2K) it has taken me a long way, leaving me able to spend other money in mics, preamps, outboard, and acoustic treatment of the studio. I nebver felt the need for a mixer, Pro Tools is my mixer and killer editing system as well.

    Hope this helps.
  18. White Rose

    White Rose Guest

    Hey Gerax,

    You know, I was just wondering the same thing. I think that the reason that everyone has talked about going with Nuendo is the 200 tracks, is that not correct? However, I have thought about the exact same issues: compatability, plug in and go, etc. in the LE package. I realize that LE has only 24 tracks, but you all must remember...I come from an analog 8 track studio where I did a lot of bouncing. 24 tracks would be HHHHHEEEEEEAAAAAVVVVVVAAAAANNNNNN! I honestly believe that I could live with 24 tracks for a year or two if I had to. And the price to get into LE would be far less than Nuendo from what I can tell. And the compatability issue with my competitor. What are some of the other considerations that I might want to look into when comparing the two? I do not want to short-change myself, and if Nuendo is just flat out better, that's what I'll do. Remember, I am still very naive when it comes to the ways of digital recording. If you guys told me that I could stick my finger up my nose and pull out an interface I'd just ask you, "How far up??" And then I'd start diggin'.
  19. lorenzo gerace

    lorenzo gerace Active Member

    Jan 27, 2002
    When choosing a DAW there's some factors that should be taken into account, in my opinion: first of all what kind of work will you be doing, or plan to? Recording has different issues that editing or mixing, and the sw/hw combo should be configured accordingly: if recording is your main goal you should look into a converter that allows you the most I/O flexibility and really good A/D converters, while on the sw side you may want to look at a healty track count. Yes, 001/LE systems are still stuck with 24 tracks for the moment, althought DIGI has been inundated so much by requests from customers in the Digi users forum (myself included) that maybe in the next sw release they're going to augment that number; anyway: 24 tracks is still like a 3 ADAT or DTRS setup, and I could easily record a full band with them, which I actually did; take this into account and consider if it's enough for you or not. I personally don't know Nuendo very well, I fiddled a bit with it, but it still reminds me of Cubase too much, and I'm not a big fan of Steinberg products, though I have a friend working in A/V post, and he swears by Nuendo, saying that it really is the alternative to Pro Tools; to me it's like this: they're both native systems, both work fine, Nuendo has more expandability and track count (but will your processor be able to run 200 tracks?, and if so will you really need them?), Pro Tools is an industry standard, and I've come to work my 001/LE system to the max and discovered its full potential; software wise I think Pro Tools is easier and really is the king of the hill as far as editing goes; Nuendo will give you access to the VST plug in platform and VSTi soft synths and the likes, while Digidesign has Direct Connect for synths for PC in the works. As far as Audio quality goes I A/Bed PT with various other software (SF Vegas audio, Cubase VST 5.0, Logic Audio Platinum 4.7 Digital Performer), and I've come to like PT best over the others (you bet it), with Logic as a close second. The downside in Pro Tools is that if you need lots of MIDI implementation PT has only the basics, and pales in comparision to Logic or Nuendo, so this could be another key factor in your decision (a workaround to this is using Logic with Digi Hardware thru Direct I/O). One of the best things I like about the 001 system is the in a well configured machine it really never crashes: I built a powerfull PC to be used exclusively with PTLE (enough with this Mac/PC flame war, choose what you like best because they both work great), and in 5 months of intensive (10 hour sessions a day) use it never crashed on me. I think the same can be said for Nuendo, but you have to spend a little more time choosing the right hardware for it. Hardware wise one really cool thing about 001 is its flexibility: I use to hook up analog outboard devices like EQs and Compressors to the 8 analog I/O, and I like to use the SPDif and ADAT I/O to hook up digital Effects units (like Lexicons ot TC) and use these to work in conjunction with DSP plug ins: to me this is a way to have the best of both worlds and a huge sonic palette.
    Excuse me if I got a bit long, I hope this will help. :p
  20. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Jan 4, 2001
    Main problem with PT LE in my mind is the 001 isn't particularly good hardware. Bad clock, mediocre converters. The MBox is a bit more appealing, but you're limited to two tracks at a time (they should have thrown lightpipe on it). The 001 also isn't expandable.

    If you can budget a little more and want PT, see what kind of deal you can get on Mix Plus of Mix3 cards folks are offing to get HD, get the ADAT bridge, and some RME outboard converters. It'll cost you, but this is what a lot of folks have been working with.


Share This Page