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Using Acoustically Recorded Drum Loops

Discussion in 'Drums' started by alexlowe1990, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. alexlowe1990

    alexlowe1990 Member

    Hi,
    I'm new to this so apologies if this isn't normally asked,
    I'm starting a company that'll exclusively sell acoustically recorded drum loops as opposed to programmed/MIDI loops etc...& I wondered if I could get any
    feedback regarding people's use of loops, or feedback on this idea
    I have a really quick 6 question survey so as to do some research for it and wondered if you're interested if you wouldn't mind filling it out?
    Here's the link for the survey;

    Survey Regarding Preferences Towards Acoustically Recorded Drum Loops For An Online Company Selling Royalty Free Drum Loops/SamplesSurvey Regarding Preferences Towards Acoustically Recorded Drum Loops For An Online Company Selling

    It'd be much appreciated and very helpful, I'll keep you posted on the website's progress as it'll be up and running this year!
    Thanks, Alex
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    lots of this stuff is already available ... has been for years. i think there's way too much of it for my taste.

    i hate the whole one man band , "producer" in a room who puts together loops, then plays bass, lays down some midi pads .. maybe a guitar overdub ... it sucks!

    my favorite recordings were all done with real live musicians gathered in one great room working out an arraignment together as a group effort ... it really is a case of the more the merrier. the more cooks, the better the broth.

    even power trippers like Phil Spector understood this ... i hate the whole "i play everything myself" bit ... power freak individuals who want to control every facet of a recording ... a lot of these guys don't play well with other kids.

    this kind of stuff is what has ruined music ... it started with drum machines and moved on to commercially available midi loops and the on to sample loops and "real drums" loops ... barf!

    give a drummer a break ... they're people too no matter what we think of them. duh they need to work just like everyone else.
     
  3. DonnyThompson

    DonnyThompson Distinguished Member

    Kurt's right... they've been around for years. back in the late 70's and early 80's there was a series of albums/tapes put out called "Drum Drops", by a drummer named Mike Kreiger. He recorded set-pattern stuff: ballad, disco, rock, etc. It was generally set up in an I/V/C/V/C/C pattern, but plenty of songwriters found them useful for demos, although I know of no one whoever actually released an album using them.

    Pre recorded samples and midi based loops can be helpful in the same way, as a demo tool, I've used them for pre production stuff, putting ideas together at 3 in the morning... but when it comes down to doing it for real, I get real musicians to join me.

    The other risk in using these pre-recorded loops in your recordings is that sooner or later you're gonna end up doing what someone else did, using the same recognizable pattern, and it might de-legitimize your work, depending on who is listening.

    fwiw
    -d.

    edit: survey filled out.
     
  4. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    *in my best Jamaican accent* Beta Monkey Music.......maan.

    I must confess that I'm one of those solo dudes. I do play with some other guys but none of them like my music. LOL. Can't blame them. I guess I'll be stuck playing Neil Young covers for the rest of my life. Nothing against Neil but, hey hey, my my, I get a little sick of the needle and the damage done after a while.
     
  5. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member


    yeah but wouldn't you prefer to work with a real band if you could? i've done lots of recordings with a drum machine ... because i didn't have access to a good drummer at the time ... and i've also over dubbed all the parts on top of that only because i didn't have access to good players at the moment ... but still if i can get a group of good players in a room at one time ... well then i'm a happy camper.

    "TEST-TEST ... Can you hear me? This is for Mr Jerry Kennedy ... We're here in my living room because we've been told we get a good sound in here"....
     
  6. hueseph

    hueseph Well-Known Member

    It's infinitely better with real musicians. I rarely meet ones who like the same music I do. Sometimes that's good. I can't be all that creative by myself. I'm a lousy drummer and a mediocre bassist. And, the energy you get from a like minded musician can really spark ingenuity.
     
  7. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    Drum Loops !! OMG, the drummer in me has gag reflex when I think of them !! facepalm

    If I could be objective (which I can't), I'd say Loops are good for DJ, Hip Hop and Rap.
    BTW, I did record some loops for a rap guy once. Sat down on an electronic drum and played the midi through a drum sampler(vsti). He was so impress with the dynamics in my playing. He said, he never heard something similar with commercial loops. (it was years ago)

    Today nearly all Drum Vsti have midi lines you can import in your DAW and modify at will, doubt I'll ever use a loop. (Addictive Drums is my favorite)
     
  8. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    For me, as a home recording geek/enthusiast, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of purchasing acoustic drum loops and putting them to use in songs where I need drums.

    Kurt is as eloquently insulting as usual. Nice to see you haven't changed a bit over the years Kurt. You've got a really bad attitude man, and there are probably few people who care what you personally prefer. Why you still think the world should care about what you personally prefer or do not prefer just baffles me. Enough said about that I guess.

    Anyway, to the OP, as others have found success creating and selling drum loops, why shouldn't you enjoy some success being in the same game? Even Mick Fleetwood has a dog in that game. A number of extraordinary drummers have made a little money doing it. Why not you?

    I would love to see a cafeteria-style service where I could audition all the loops and create a custom package to purchase based on my personal needs at the time of production.

    I do also collaborate with drummers in other areas of the country and fun with that, but don't always have the time for it. I can also testify that being involved with other drummers for a project can be disappointing when I'm hot on a project and the drummer who agreed to participate is dragging his feet. Drum loops help me get it on right then when I'm ready. A drum loop never makes excuses why he's days or weeks late getting around to tracking for my project. In other words, people can be entirely unreliable; perfectly recorded acoustic drum loops...not so much, LOL.
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    LOL !!

    well that was pretty insulting in itself and i guess you cared enough to feel inclined to comment. btw, i don't care what you think either in this case.

    everyone is entitled to their opinion and i have mine. my guess is you were never in the studio business professionally otherwise you might have an understanding of the "bad attitude" a lot of people (myself included) about these "tools" that make it possible for people to not go to a real studio to record.

    perhaps you can't get a real drummer to come over to your house because you won't pay them? if i'm a little to real for you that's ok with me.diddlydoo
     
  10. Toni Meister

    Toni Meister Guest

    Back in the day, we used to make our own drum loops. Sometimes bands would come in with a drum set but no drummer. One of the guitar guys would try to do just a bass drum snare drum thing. We go back and they would fill in and overdub tom-tom rolls, cymbal crashes. We would mix and process that to a stereo track on 1/4 inch tape. We would splice things together until we got a good loop. We would then thread the recorder with this loop of tape and dangle an empty plastic take-up reel to provide tension across the heads. This worked out quite well. By 1996... I was looping with Cool Edit. Other folks just brought in drum machines that we would take the multi-track outputs from to the multi-track recorder. We would then handle that as we would any drum mixing.

    So I'm not really quite sure how much of a market you will be able to financially benefit from? There really isn't anything different between a drum pattern loop and that of sampled drums in a loop, coming from a drum machine or samples in software. But just like anything else... there will be those that will want your loops. Are you going to get rich? Probably not. But you never know?

    Toni Meister
     
  11. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    And I don't know if it's so much about getting rich as it is about just simply doing something positively creative that you enjoy doing, then see what happens. Nothing wrong with that. So many people have ides but never put the time or energy into making them reality. Personally I haven't been recording since the 90's to get rich or achieve fame. I do it because I'm a singer/songwriter and love to record my musical ideas and share them via recordings. Drum loops help me make it all happen from time to time, as not all of my music calls for a drum kit.

    Props to the OP for getting off his arse to actually manifest his idea.
     
  12. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    congratulations, you have achieved you goal ...

    the whole idea of self recording is to share your recordings. i would love to hear some of yours 'yote ...

    i've used loops ... but the ones i've used were ones i created with drum machines ... and i would still rather just sit down with a good drummer and one mic and record that instead ... loops suck. any one can cut and paste.
     
  13. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    For me its never been about trying to pretend to sound real when samples fit better or just the opposite. I try never to push my era into anything. The musical content and language should tell you what it needs. Nothing more goofy than hearing the wrong sound or sonic footprint in a song that doesn't fit. Same as singing. You can sing a phase many ways but there is usually only a few ways it actually sounds right. This is where I have a problem with Opera Singers singing pop music. I mean, puke.

    But who's to say it fits or doesn't? Who is our audience or what is the song all all about? That is the first thing I'd be asking or making very clear. Opinions mean nothing if we don't know what you are shooting for.

    Its all good if its in the right contents.
     
  14. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    recording is all about opinions / decisions. the art form is critical by nature. and if you can't take being criticized, you are in the wrong vocation. the road to success is paved with failure and rejection (criticism / opinions).

    if you have no opinion, how can you make a decision? does that sound right? what tool (pre , reverb, compressor/ gate, plug, recording medium, studio musician, instrument i/e piano, sax, guitar /strat, tele, less paul, acoustic?) do we employ?

    critical thinking ... logic applied. all opinions. some opinions are based on experience and some are based on other things .... you get to choose which to pay attention to ... again another opinion. every time you make a choice.
     
  15. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    Sure man, I have a bunch of stuff here: SoundClick artist: Ken Lusk - Acoustic Music and Folk Rock with some Americana type arrangements here and there.

    Knock yourself out.

    I especially like the drums in "Holy Night Part II". YMMV
     
  16. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    thanks for sharing. yeah those drums sound pretty good. my sr 16 sounds good too ...

    https://soundcloud.com/user418315800/mckenzie-river-run



    but these drums sound much better ...

     
  17. pcrecord

    pcrecord Don't you want the best recording like I do ? Well-Known Member

    It sounds too roomy for me and lacks some dynamic and human feel. And that nice drum fill ending with no cymbals at 3/4 of the song? Well...
    But hey, I'M A DRUMMER. A real one ! hey hey hey :wink:
    Samples and Loops? I guess it all depends how you use them and if you can achieve some statement ; creative and/or natural.

    Not everybody can live in a band or meet the right people to fit their goals. I understand, one has to make compromise, when no drummer's available and/or you don't have the money to hire one. Or no money to rent a studio with a proper drum recording room. There's nothing wrong with doing what we can to express ourself and deal with what we have and can buy. Loops might have helped many musicians to show their work and be discovered. But as much as Loops CAN be great, It'll never replace a professional musician. If you don't play an instrument, you'll have no clue how a real person could react, understand, feel your music and create a authentic track made with his/her heart, his/her bounding feelings and the sum of his/her experiences. Present your music to a stranger and let him feel it and record his part. Enjoy the unexpected and trust your music to go to places you thought it never could..

    My God, am I inspired this morning !!!
     
  18. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    You are inspired, and it always feels good to be inspired. And I love live drums, I really do. I don't like drum machines and don't go for the sound of programmed drums. I did the band scene for several years and as I grew into other hobbies, interests, and areas of disciplined study I found less and less time for a band. Let's just say I realigned myself with a different focus in mind. I chose to give up spending so much discretionary energy on seeking validation from other's. But that means when I have the time to record my musical ideas I need an alternative to a live drummer. So it's true, ideally I'd love to have a real drummer at my beck and call at 11pm or 2am but it's not reasonable. Nor would my neighbors appreciate a live kit getting hammered at such hours, my HOA would definitely get a lot of complaints over that. So acoustic drum loops recorded by a real drummer are a luxury that helps me get my groove on.

    And you also proved one of my points (and perhaps you'll agree with this); the drums sound exactly how I want them to sound, including the "room". I've recorded in enough studios to know what a good drum booth sounds like, and sometimes that dry up-front dead room sound is great for certain material. The drums on Back In Black come to mind. But I love the sound of a bigger room with some reflections going on, that's just me. So I take the time to craft a room sound using multiple Aux channels, EQ filtering, compression, and reverb to create a hand crafted (or digitally crafted) multi-comp excited compression thing. Kind like what they did in the Motown days. And that's fun for me too.

    I craft the drums first, then track all the other instruments to the drums. I can't stand click tracks.

    Some people love how it sounds and some people ( like yourself) don't. And that's life. The point is, I get to do it my way on my own schedule and at my leisure, so it's all good. I think that why so many people patronize the drum loop industry.
     
  19. audiokid

    audiokid Staff

    Well, I love it all! If its done well that is.

    But those looped drums could sound a lot better. The mix and lack of knowledge on programming shows. Plain and simple.

    Nothing more awesome sounding than sampled drums mixed well in the appropriate music.
    Nothing more awesome sounding than real drums mixed and performed well in the appropriate music.

    Nothing worse sounding than bad sounding real or digital drums. And FWIW, most drums I hear today don't stack up to well programed or well looped drums in certain styles of music. But then, what type of music are we all talking about anyway?

    Nothing better than listening to a great live band.
    Nothing better than playing with a live band.
    Nothing worse sounding than a drummer playing so loud you can't mix a thing or hear what's going on beside you.
    Nothing worse than a drummer who can't play simple. Most of the time in commercial recordings, simple is all you need.
    Nothing worse sounding than a crappy room with a live drummer. And how many crappy rooms are there? Some people love real drums so much, they overlook the sound and simply appreciate the performance. So it becomes a matter of taste. Some people love Grunge and distorted converters. In fact, if you don't have that distortion and massive bleed, it doesn't even attract their attention.

    Again, what type of music are we all talking about anyway?

    I love acoustic music and wish I could record and mix it more. I miss the old days more than ever but I've never for a moment stopped appreciating something done well.
     
  20. CoyoteTrax

    CoyoteTrax Well-Known Member

    Which looped drums are you referring to? Which link above are you commenting on audiokid?
     

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