Using Plugins AND a Console?

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by John A, Aug 30, 2001.

  1. John A

    John A Guest

    I know first hand that mixing inside a DAW is a sonic compromise, but my question is this:

    Do any guys who run out DAW tracks into a console for mixing use plugins upon inserts along with hardware effects? I was thinking something like this: Use logic on a PC, run out 24 tracks through RME 8di Pro into the studio's console, but use some Waves Plugins and the Universal audio plugins (1176 and LA-2) in an insert here and there. From what I hear, the LA-2 and 1176 plugins are stunning, so it seems like this could be the ideal thing, no? Or, do people find that just running a track through a plugin causes side effects like loss of depth and 3D?
     
  2. j.hall

    j.hall Guest

    OK, i don't have a ton of experience on this particuliar issue but maybe i can add a few things

    first....i don't personally think the 1176 and LA-2 plugins are all that.....they are super cool compared to other stuff for logic and PT, but they lack the true spirit of the real deal
    which to me, is to be expected of an emulator

    i would say that if you are going to direct out the DAW stuff to a console and mix that way....then you should not use computerplug-ins just seems like too much hassel that won't create any real benefit

    however, if there are effects in the computer that you really dig, then by all means go for it

    i have done a good amount of work in PT and in analoge rooms......i'm not really a fan of mixing the two
    but i am hard pressed to offer an opinion that comes in the form of addvice that ends up saying "don't even try it"

    anyone can tell you anything they want
    but until you live through it yourself.....you will never truly understand it....and...you will alway wonder if it might have worked for you


    so i say....i wouldn't do it, however, go for it


    i think i just made the whole thing more confusing

    good luck,
    j.hall
     
  3. zap

    zap Guest

    Yep.... for me its a big jumbled mess of "both"... I do some mixing "purely within" my DAW (SONAR is my choice coz I've been a cakehead since 2.0 - so sue me) but many other things, mostly vox, gets flown out to the console and massage analog-ish.

    But hey dont take it from ME I'm just a fool in a garage... ;)

    /Z
     
  4. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    Originally posted by John A:
    I know first hand that mixing inside a DAW is a sonic compromise, but my question is this:

    Do any guys who run out DAW tracks into a console for mixing use plugins upon inserts along with hardware effects? I was thinking something like this: Use logic on a PC, run out 24 tracks through RME 8di Pro into the studio's console, but use some Waves Plugins and the Universal audio plugins (1176 and LA-2) in an insert here and there. From what I hear, the LA-2 and 1176 plugins are stunning, so it seems like this could be the ideal thing, no? Or, do people find that just running a track through a plugin causes side effects like loss of depth and 3D?


    John,

    If I'm mixing out of PT into analog console, I'll sometimes use the internal comressors, or EQ or even de-essers. It really depends on how big the mix is, or if I'm running out of outboard gear.

    I don't find the 1176 or La2aplug-insto actually sound like either of those pieces of hardware. But they don't necessarily sound bad to me. To be honest, I feel that all thoseplug-inslack personality. And that's often times a trait I'm looking for when considering a compressor. But not every track in a mix is looking fro personality. Sometimes it's just looking to hav its dynamic range reduced. In those cases a plug-in can work fine.

    A good way to get around some of the problems with PT's is to useplug-insto adjust the level in a mix, rather than moving the fader from unity. In other words, I haven't heard nearly the degradation from the more popularplug-insthat I have from moving the faders. That doesn't mean ther isn't degradation. That just means I haven't noticed any.

    Mixerman
     
  5. Teacher

    Teacher Guest

    on a Side note whatplug-inswould anyone recommend?
     
  6. MMazurek

    MMazurek Guest

    The plugs with 48 bit internal processing 'sound' the best, as well as McDSP stuff (keeps the resolution some other way I believe).

    But I believe anything goes.

    I mix all in PT, but occasionally I'll pipe somethin out to a comp or eq or whatever to get the sound of that hardware box. It's a trade off of 'keep it digital/use a plugin' or 'convert it back & forth to use the hardware'.

    I try to plan ahead and use compression & eq on the way in though.

    WARNING: I am NOT a pro.
     
  7. Mixerman

    Mixerman Active Member

    Originally posted by MMazurek:

    I mix all in PT, but occasionally I'll pipe somethin out to a comp or eq or whatever to get the sound of that hardware box. It's a trade off of 'keep it digital/use a plugin' or 'convert it back & forth to use the hardware'.


    Don't you have problems with latency?

    Mixerman
     
  8. radiophonic

    radiophonic Guest

    Originally posted by Teacher:
    on a Side note whatplug-inswould anyone recommend?

    I'm really liking the Powered Plugins/UAD-1 card... then there is always the Waves Native stuff. This assumes DirectX/VST.

    Your best bet is to try them - most native versions have demo/trials.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  9. bradmcgowan

    bradmcgowan Guest

    Originally posted by Mixerman:


    John,

    If I'm mixing out of PT into analog console, I'll sometimes use the internal comressors, or EQ or even de-essers. It really depends on how big the mix is, or if I'm running out of outboard gear.

    I don't find the 1176 or La2aplug-insto actually sound like either of those pieces of hardware. But they don't necessarily sound bad to me. To be honest, I feel that all thoseplug-inslack personality

    Mixerman


    I think the original poster was referring to the Universal Audio plugins which at this time are only available for VST platforms. I get the impression that everyone else is referring to the Bomb Factory emulations of the 1176 and the LA2A. I think this clarification is necessary to make since the word on the street is that the Universal Audio versions are better sounding than the Bomb Factory ones.

    Brad
     
  10. I've been doing that all the time since I quit mixing digitally. Mostly because I don't have enough outboard compressors/eq's (yet). But even if I did, there are certain advantages to that approach (a kind of partial total recall) and some interesting and uniqueplug-insthat make it worthwhile.

    Predrag
     
  11. atlasproaudio

    atlasproaudio Active Member

    Originally posted by Mixerman:

    I don't find the 1176 or La2aplug-insto actually sound like either of those pieces of hardware. But they don't necessarily sound bad to me.



    Are you referring to Bomb Factory or UA plugs?
     
  12. Aaron-Carey

    Aaron-Carey Active Member

    I mix some in my PC and some on a console. My app is SF vegas which has a routing problkem for doing it this way. Outputs must be panned hard right for even outputs and hard left for odd outputs, so if you are using internal DX send fx or going to an Aux, the track looses its stereo placement in the effect bummer! Hopefully Vegas 3 will fix this issue

    Be careful aboyut phase issues if you are bringing the tracks back into the PC.
    Typically I mix the drums to two tracks thru an analog console then back into the PC for a final mix of everything on the console.

    The quality of DX/VST reverbs just doesnt cut it for me, hence the console deal. Hopefully someday that will change.

    as a side note...

    A new DX fx plug just came out called ozone.
    http://www.ecornhusker.com/products/ozone/ozone.html

    The reverb to me is slightly better than most dx vst reverbs but I think any OPEN minded user who tries the EQ whatever side of the analog/ digital/ hardware/ software fence you sit on, you gotta say " wow great EQ "

    give it a try, free demo
     
  13. MMazurek

    MMazurek Guest

    Don't you have problems with latency?

    It's usually a bus (drums, gtrs) goin to a pair of Distressors or a Summit pultec eq or something (or maybe my shiny new Fatso as of yesterday).

    The latency doesn't bother my while getting the sound I want, then I bounce to new tracks & nudge OR just delay the other tracks. The manual lists the delay times, but it's easier to match up the waveforms w/the original track.

    ...although other ideas are always welcome.
     
  14. e-cue

    e-cue Active Member

    I started with protools gradually, so I did the mix & match (ssl / protools) for quite a while. I got more & more used to protools & now I mix almost entired in it.
    If you have latency issues, check you DAE buffer.
    I'd start with these plug-in's: Filterbank, Fairchild, Echofarm, and the WAVES (esspecially the renaissance reverb which is a really great sounding verb, judge it yourself). Avoid plug in's with long delays (hold down apple & click the vol in the mix page to see how much of a delay your plug-in's are causing. (like Master X5, Intonator, Mastertools, etc.)
     
  15. subspace

    subspace Guest

    When I route a track out of the DAW for processing, I assign all the internally bused tracks to a digital output. Then I loop that output connector to it's matching input and assign this input to the mix bus along with the return of the externally processed track. This keeps the latency equal for all tracks, aside from any analog conversion delay.
     
  16. iZotope

    iZotope Guest

    Aaron, thanks so much for the kind comments. We are very proud of the EQ and multiband dynamics in Ozone.

    It's a long story that was a mistake by another company, but we actually have some sports domains pointing to our site (with Ozone just launched the last thing we needed was *more* traffic :) So the actual URL for Ozone is on www.izotope.com, specifically, http://www.izotope.com/products/ozone/ozone.html
     
  17. iZotope

    iZotope Guest

    Hit reply too soon - wanted to add that I'm Justin Callahan from iZotope, Inc, and feel free to email me at justin@izotope.com if you have any questions on Ozone.

    Thanks,
    Justin
    iZotope, Inc.
     

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