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VERY small onsite monitors?

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by Exsultavit, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Folks-

    Do any of you have speakers that you use on very small setups? Clearly, My phones will provide a very detailed sound, but it is good to have speakers as well...

    For larger gigs, I have nice ADAM S2.5a that please the clients and I like them too! But what I would like is a small alternative that can just fit into the rear lid of my SKB 4 space case. I would love to step up from my Radio Shak Minimus-Sevens, (h 7", w 4.5", d 4.25").

    What are you using? Are there any suprise solutions out there that I don't know about? Has anyone tried the smallest Genelecs (the 8020a model)?

    thanks!

    Exsultavit
     
  2. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    NHT Mini-M00
     
  3. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Have you used these? Do you use them? Can you describe your experiences with them?

    Also- I have found the "NHT M00 mini monitors". These are the same size as the Genelecs- actually a bit larger. Almost too large for me. Also- they seem to require a sub.

    Does anyone use these without a sub?

    I appreciate the product name, but it would really help if you wrote a bit...

    thanks!

    Exsultavit
     
  4. moonbaby

    moonbaby Mmmmmm Well-Known Member

    Anything that small is going to require a subwoofer for deep bass. You posted this question on the "Acoustic Music" forum. Many who record acoustic material on remotes do not require a sub, especially for tracking.
    Yes, I have a pair of the M00s. I use them regularly to track live dates of jazz big band performances, some blues and rock remotes, too. They are very accurate and linear. Mixes done on them translate pretty well to other systems. No, the bottom end doesn't extend as far as a bigger box, that is a given. I'm sure it doesn't on the Genelecs, either. But the NHTs are a great small speaker, worth 3 times their price.
     
  5. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Thanks for that info, Moonbaby. I certainly understand the need for a sub with any small spkr. Some, though, are designed to use a sub and never without them. Those sound useless without a sub. I am glad to hear that you use them onsite without one.

    Have you compared to the Genelecs?

    Ex
     
  6. Randyman...

    Randyman... Well-Known Member

    We use the 8020a's in a temporary Master Control Suite setup - and they still fill the room with sound! The low-end is obviously a bit weak, but the mid-bass on up sounds fantastic to me...

    Placing them in a corner will obviously help them couple with the room, and give you more low-end for free...

    :cool:
     
  7. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I've used the M-00s. I assure you - they sound fabulous without a sub. (Granted, low stuff ain't there. But, on location gigs, the room is such that I'm never keen on low end information anyway.)

    You might want to check out Audioengine (Model 2 and 5)

    The AE 2 was reviewed in Stereophile last month and got a pretty darned good review. The AE5 is a bit bigger but both seem incredibly small. I've considered getting them myself for smaller remotes and if they suck (since I know nothing of them other than the review), I'll relegate them to computer speaker duty...

    More info on AE:
    Line6 amp modeling boxes.
     
  8. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Thanks for that tip! I am investigating the A2 now. The Genelecs and the NHTs are both just a bit too big for my available roadcase space. The A2 is small enough, and maybe it sounds good!

    BTW: The website offers a 30 day listening period with no penalty if you don't like them. And the shipping is free- so my only financial risk is the postage to send them back if I don't like them.

    Height: 6", width: 4". I only need to know the Depth (they look deeper than 4") to place my order. I've sent them an email with my request.

    My current plan is to use my new Benchmark DA1 to feed them.

    I will post here with my impressions!

    Exsultavit
     
  9. bap

    bap Member

    Emes Pink might do the trick if they are still available. Very high quality and good sound.

    http://www.floridamusicco.com/proddetail~prod~pinktv.htm
     
  10. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I would generally agree Re: the Emes...my only thoughts contrary on the subject would be:

    1 - the size still is a little larger than Exsultavit seems to be looking for
    2 - the *only* drawback I've seen to smaller Emes (not heard the pink, so can't state for certain) is that they don't have much in reserves for dynamic power. What they're giving you is almost what they have to offer at full tilt. So, loud brassy sections that sneak out of no where seem to almost overwhelm them.

    I suspect this is due mostly to the fact that their smaller stuff is generally designed for TV post production.

    They do generally sound quite nice though. For the price...I would still consider the Adams or Dynaudios serious competitors in that size class.
     
  11. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Cucco-

    Yes, you are correct in thinking that the Emes Pink is too large for me. They are larger than the Genelecs or NHTs, and I have already said that THEY are almost too large.

    Just to clarify: I have nicer, larger monitors for setups that allow for that luxury. I am always trying to downsize my smaller 'day to day' setup, though. I am willing to sacrifice some fidelity/ low end in the monitors (but not, of course, in the recording chain!) in order to make my small setup fast and easy.

    The monitors need to be small enough to be transported inside the back lid of a 4-space SKB case. That case already has gear and some cables in it. So height: 9.5' is a true limit. Width: 4" or 5". After that, the stored speakers 'reach" too deep into the case and hit the other gear's back-end.

    Right now, I am unwilling to add another case to my small rig. I'm actually trying to get RID of one!

    Exsultavit

    The A2's, if they sound OK, will make this dimension with ease!
     
  12. larsfarm

    larsfarm Active Member

    Any experience whíth these or theire "D" variation?

    http://www.klein-hummel.com/klein-hummel/icm_en.nsf/root/prof-monitoring_studio-monitors_control-monitors_M52

    L
     
  13. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    It sounds like you're gonna try the A2s.

    Please let us know your opinions on these once you do. I'm considering the same thing for location recording. Hauling the Adams around is great when I can afford the space, but not for my back!!!
     
  14. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Cucco-

    Yes, I ordered the A2B yesterday. I'll let you know!

    The K&H may be very nice, but I won't go there unless the A2 is not good enuf.

    Price- at 1,700 per pair (or 2,400 per pair for the 52D model), I hope very, very much that the A2 ($200 per pair) pleases me!!!

    Exsultavit
     
  15. rfreez

    rfreez Active Member

    fwiw, the 8020 can be rack mounted using an optional accessory sold by genelec. i cannot see anything less than a 4" woofer being useful.

    :cool:
     
  16. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Well, I got the AE2's today.

    Very nice! I will need to experiment more with them to learn all their strengths and weaknesses, but I will say that they are a good/ great speaker for their size, and very impressive for the money.

    Nice quality construction and very polished surfaces. Nice little drawstring bags for the speakers and accessories. The bags are not real useful for my purposes, but I get a real feeling that the manufacturer cares and is proud of their work.

    The sound is not what I expected from this size speaker (6"H X 4"W X 5.15"D). I was concerned that the top end might be to sizzly, but it is absolutely not hyped or zingy. I actually could use a bit more top, but when I plugged in an EQ, I wound up only adding 3 db @ about 8k.

    In a speaker this size, the lows are usually the big question. For my uses, little monitors are acceptable and useful if they put out a good representation of the midrange and maybe the top. Little speakers can allude to the low end, but they have no business trying to actually state it. If little speakers try to provide lows that they really shouldn't try for they wind up with "strange bass syndrome".

    With this speaker, I feel the manufacturers could have gone for a bit less lows and I would like the AE2 more. There is a bump at 95-100hz that is pronounced. There is also a 'wooly' sound that I think is a bit much. I find I can tame this somewhat just by putting a piece of tape over the bass ports. This tightens it up some- though there is still more 'pump' than I think is right.

    On the good side, the mids are very clean and easy to get used to- and though I wish for a bit more top, I find my ears can adjust pretty quickly to the sound of these speakers. And though the lows are a bit much, I get used to them too. There is plenty of overall power in the amp, though I wish the volume knob was mounted on the front for easier adjusting.

    So- I really do think that the AE2 is good, especially for it's size. No one can repeal the laws of physics, so great, 'real' lows are just not on the menu here. I would love a way of taming the bandwidth around the 100hz region, but that is just my desire.

    Would love to hear other folks' thoughts!

    Exsultavit
     
  17. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Addendum:

    I'm getting to like these speakers more and more. I have been editing this choir/ orch project, and have been switching between the AE2 and my ADAM S2.5a pair. Whule they are clearly very different speakers and sounds, I find myself 'getting into' the AE2s and forgetting that I'm working on them rather than the ADAMs. A good feeling!

    I may get another pair to have around the house...

    Note: I do have the bass ports taped shut during all this.

    BUT: When the pipe organ interludes come up, the AE2 bass bump makes certain pedals leap up in volume over the others. Very annoying! I have to keep reminding myself not to adjust those bass freqs.

    Exsultavit
     
  18. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    Addendum:

    I'm getting to like these speakers more and more. I have been editing this choir/ orch project, and have been switching between the AE2 and my ADAM S2.5a pair. Whule they are clearly very different speakers and sounds, I find myself 'getting into' the AE2s and forgetting that I'm working on them rather than the ADAMs. A good feeling!

    I may get another pair to have around the house...

    Note: I do have the bass ports taped shut during all this.

    BUT: When the pipe organ interludes come up, the AE2 bass bump makes certain pedals leap up in volume over the others. Very annoying! I have to keep reminding myself not to adjust those bass freqs.

    Exsultavit
     
  19. Cucco

    Cucco Distinguished Member

    I don't know if you're keen on modifying, but apparently there's a pretty substantial EQ circuit built into these. Perhaps you could bypass it or mod it to have less impact at 100Hz?
     
  20. Exsultavit

    Exsultavit Active Member

    J-

    I have contacted AE about this. According to the exchange below, their support person does not agree that any mods can be done. Perhaps he is wrong? What info do you have on this that might be useful?

    Mark



    Hi Mark,


    The tradeoff for speaker tuning is always tricky. The extended bass range of the 2's is one of their claims to fame. However, the stronger bass is not for everyone.


    We don't recommend that you tape over the port as this is also part of the cooling scenario. Instead, you could set them on an additional padded surface, and also turn down your bass input from your source a bit.




    Dear Dave

    Thanks for your input.

    RE: covering the port: Are you saying that I am endangering the speakers by covering the ports? I am running these speakers at pretty low volume.

    RE: Lowering the bass at the source: This is not real practical. I am using these speakers as control room monitors at classical recording sessions, not as 'pleasure listening' speakers. Can I do anything with the electronics? Perhaps at the amp?

    Forgive me if this goes against your concept of good sound, and also forgive if I am trying to change the sound you all agreed upon when designing the speaker...

    Mark

    Hi Mark,

    There's really not anything you can do at the speakers themselves to modify the sound.

    At low volume, covering the port is not a problem.

    Cheers!
    Dave
     

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