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Vintech preamps

Discussion in 'Preamps / Channel Strips' started by igloo, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. igloo

    igloo Guest

    Hi, what do you people think about Vintech preamps as a means for achieving a warm "vintage" tone on DAW recordings. For instance, the new Vintech 473, although has "essential" EQ, offers 4 channels of "1073 style" preamplification.

    Regards, Happy Holidays!

    Rodrigo Montfort
    Monterrey, Mexico :p:
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Vintech link
     
  3. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    The Vintech units are very good and sound as close to the real Neve 1073 as any clone could be. I own two x81's and am very happy with them.
     
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    I just recieived am E Mail from Vintech saying they want to send a 473 to me for review.
    WHOO-HOO!

    Keep an eye out for a review on this unit in the next few months ...
     
  5. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Kurt...you suck! :)

    Hehe...looking forward to the review...
     
  6. Johnson Cabasa

    Johnson Cabasa Active Member

    my dealer lent me a x81 and i sent it back. it wasn't nearly as good at the brent averill stuff i already had. it just sounded flat
     
  7. Yup. I keep hearing great things about Averill, too!

    But, I also hear great things about Vintech...to each his own, I guess.
     
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    It just goes to show there is no accounting for individual taste. We are all going to like different things. The 1272 is not a pre amp but rather a line amp intended for a headphones and as summing amps in Neve consoles. They are short on gain (60dB) because they only use 2 stages of gain as opposed to 3 stages used by the real Neves and guys like Dan Kennedy. I have used the Averill 1272’s myself and never was impressed with the sound of them. I also found the build quality to be an issue.

    On the other hand, I recently received a Great River MP2NV (3 gain stages) and I was floored at how great it sounds. That 3rd stage really makes the difference. Lots of headroom, full, thick, solid, transparent, warm, shimmering, ballsy, are the adjectives that come to mind.
     
  9. Kricun

    Kricun Guest

    I wonder, does the Vintech x73 have 2 or 3 gain stages? Anyone know? I checked their website and it doesn't say. I have one, but I find myself reaching for my Buzz Class A pre more often than the Vintech. I've worked on a few Neve consoles (not recently) but not enough to be able to say from memory if the Vintech's sound the same as the real deal.
    Mitch
     
  10. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Since there never was a 1272 mic pre as a standard product made and sold by Neve, not all 1272's are built or wired up the same. Only a few of those that make and sell them on a regular bassis wire them as to how Neve would have likely done it. And of those, both gain stages that they do have are the same as in the three stage 1073 and sound the same (or damn near the same) when using 50db or less of gain. However, when using more than 50db of gain where that third stage starts to kick in, you really get a more thick and full tone. That third stage comes in mighty handy to give a wide varity of tone by adjusting the gain in relation to how the output level is adjusted. Many other mic pre's don't have this kind of output level adjustment (which is really just an attenuation control of full output)

    60db is plenty of gain, and more than enough for any modern mic. Only a few of ribbon and other vintage oldies would need more than that. The refurbished 1272 module that Brenet Averill used to sell was wired for 70db of gain. The third stage in the 1073 is not so much to provide extra gain as it is to balance the gain over three stages thus giving a more smooth and linear perfomance by not driving any gain stage into it's upper and unstable limits. On most 1272's, including the BA units, the non linearities start to make themselves more noticed when using more than 55db of gain with certain mics. This more dirty and unstable sound character is yet another reason why the 1272 is popular with some and why it is hated by others.

    The NV unit made by Great River is a very nice and great sounding unit. Together with the new eq, it seems to me to be just what Rupert himself might have done if he were to upgrade his very own 1073.

    I've been hearing that Rupert is in the process of re-making some of his old designs. It will be interesting to see what they will be.
     
  11. AudioGaff

    AudioGaff Well-Known Member

    Yes, it does as well as it should considering it is being sold and directly compared to sound like a real Neve 1073.
     
  12. julian lamp

    julian lamp Guest

    so tell me kurt how does the gr river compare to the sebatron ....i have the seb and am liking it alot for the sound i,m trying to create but ive heard loads of good things about the mnv 2
    julian
     
  13. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Julian,
    It is apples and oranges... like asking someone to compare a Telefunkin V72 and a Neve ... I hate to say it but if I had to choose which one I could have just considering the sound, I would go with the MP2NV. Dan Kennedy and Fletcher have really cooked something great up in the MP2NV.. but you have to consider that the Great River sells for around $1400 per channel while the vmp 4000e is about $350 per .. and I can absolutely say that there are some situations where I would prefer the tube channel of a vmp over any solid state pre. In my world the best thing is to have a couple MP2NVs as well as at least one vmp 4000e.. yeah, that's it ... that's the ticket..
     
  14. julian lamp

    julian lamp Guest

    thanks kurt..put it this way i,m recording some acoustic guitar percussion ,vocals and bass tracks ,i like the sound of beatles revolver ,late sixties warmth and the seb really seems to give this kind of character ,i also like the idea in this instance of using one pre to give it that oneness of sound .So would it be worth trying the great river in this context .This is an albim project so dont get me wrong i,m not unhappy with the sebatron ,i,m just interested in the characteristics of the great river and want to be sure of my decision
    i,ve tried ua2610 {nice but too coloured]
    phoenix drs1[too modern}
    broadhurst gardens....{not known in the states but will be. Clear sweet sound}
    Okay i,m rambling and probably procrastinating
    so tell me SHALL I TRY THE GREAT RIVER?
     
  15. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Julian,
    That sound the Beatles got on Revolver was through Telefunkin, Neumann and AKG mics, a custom built desk that EMI made using for the most part Telefunkin pres, eq's and amps and Fairchild and Altec limiter / compressors. I was lucky enough to have the chance to see that console at a NARAS show in San Fransisco in the early 90's..

    As I said in my review of the vmp 4000e, I hear that sound in the Sebatron. Sebatron insists that it is not the same type of pre but that's what I hear. It's gotta be th' tubes... :D

    If that is the sound you like, then the Sebatron is absolutely the way to go for you..
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous Guests

    AudioGaff has the 1272 issue pretty much described right on the money. At low gains there should be no audible difference between a properly wired up 1272 and a 1073 (with no EQ engaged). But at high gains they are different animals, with the 1073 being cleaner and the 1272 starting to distort. The real key to the tone on these things is the output transformer, which has a DC bias across it's primary. It can saturate on bass heavy sounds and adds some nice harmonics. This generates that 'thick' Neve sound.

    In the low rent categor, I highly recommend checking out the Peavey VMP-2 (not their new TMP thingy...it's garbage). If you can find one used it should sell at around $500-600 USD, and gives you great input transformers (Reichenback RE-115s, same as API 312's), and a decent design. Use the unbalanced out for clean sounds, and the balanced out (through a steel core transformer, again similar to API) for a little iron grit. I have no idea how peavey sold this thing at the price they did. 8 tubes, high quality transformers, solid power supply. They skimped on some parts (I'm just about to put about $200 worth of upgraded caps in mine), but I think they skimped in the right spots. Peavey did a great job on this unit...maybe too good, hence the reason why it was discontinued (probably realized there wasn't enough profit margin, and not enough people willing to pay high prices for Peavey branded equipment).

    Cheers,

    Kris
     
  17. Tundrasound

    Tundrasound Guest

    First time on the board--good to be here. I just ordered 2 Vintech x73i's. I'll let you know what I think of them later on.
     
  18. Mr. Dickface McSlapnuts, where oh where did you come up with such a witty handle?
     
  19. julian lamp

    julian lamp Guest

    thanks again kurt yes to my ears i,m going in the right direction ..the acoustics guitars are not as bright as if i had used a cleaner pre but thats the vibe i think i want .if you,re interested i,m using a modded u87 some oktava s,d,s and everything,s going through a cranesong hedd which is a great great sounding converter.
    julian
     
  20. Hummer

    Hummer Guest

    Got an X73i coming in any day now. Will post a review once I've taken it for a spin.

    Best,
    Da Hummer
     

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