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vocal clipping even though it is unde 0 db

Discussion in 'Vocals' started by recman, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. recman

    recman Guest

    hello here is my situation
    i have
    Shure ksm 27 mic
    Yamaha O1v Digital Mixer
    and hte prob is my vocal sings rock and when he screams the sounds becomes ugly like the sound of clipping but i used compressor on the mixer so the signel is under 0 db but still sounds like clipping when he screams
    i dont know if i explained it in the right way but i hope someone can help me :)
     
  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    You need to pat attention to all gain stages .. pre amp, channel strip, compressor, recorder channel ..

    It sounds to me like you clipped in the mic pre or the channel strip on the way to the recorder input.
     
  3. recman

    recman Guest

    man thx for answering me
    but i have no pre amp i connect mic to my mixer directly
    and i make sure that level dont go over 0 db wiht compressor
    and listen to it by headphone and speakers
    am i doing it right or still missing something ?
     
  4. Yes you do...
    Right here. That's a preamp. Make sure the input stage doesn't clip. Also make sure that the compressor doesn't work too hard - cheaper compressors can give ugly distortion if you push them.
     
  5. jonyoung

    jonyoung Well-Known Member

    You might also be distorting at the capsule of the mic. Some singers move enough air to accomplish this. Does the mic have a pad?
     
  6. recman

    recman Guest

    the mic is KSM shure as i said :) that is on a normal stand with a filter infront of it 10 cintemeters far from it and the singer also is like 10 cintemeter away from the mic when he sings
    i am really going crazy i dont know what to do i know i am missing something
    i tell the singer when he wants to scream to get a little away from the mic but that way his voice sounds far
    is it the mic ? but peple told me this is a good studio vocaling mic
    any help would be appreaciated
     
  7. jonyoung

    jonyoung Well-Known Member

    Is your 0db level analog or digital? If it's digital, shoot for a peak level of -6dbFS rather than 0.
     
  8. recman

    recman Guest

    i amy sound dumb here :)
    but my mixer is digital so what i see as 0 db is digital db right ?
     
  9. wayne

    wayne Guest

    Digi meters tend to be peak reading but may also have an average (RMS) setting. If it's reading peak (as it should be), keeping it well below zero as said above will eliminate converter clipping as a cause.
    You didn't say whether the mic pad is on. It may clip there or again at the mic pre. (I don't know what the mic trim vs A/D level options are on the mixer.)
    It could also simply be that with lots of compression you are hearing the 'hash that can be a natural part of some voices running in overdrive. :shock: 8)
    Check recording with the same gain/pad/ -6dbfs peak A/D conditions w/o the compression. Is it clean?
    Wayne
     
  10. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    I have a very short and simple test

    Use a >10 dB passive pad between mic and mic input
    and don't change the gain for now

    If this does not change the situation then it could well be an overdriven mic

    If it does improve things, then it could be because the front end of the mic-pre is being clipped even though the gain control is low. There are a few mic-pres with no gain control and only a output level control ( I know you have the 01V - just a bit of history)

    another thing could be to lose the compressor for now ... just while you sort things out
     
  11. KTek

    KTek Guest

    man, i scream in my band,,, i've been through stuff exactly like this too,,,, tried every link in the chain,,, i just had to back off the mic!!! i think we all have a few frequencies in our throats that we can produce much louder than others,,, and sometimes it really is more that enough to clip a mic,, you may not notice it as easily as you would with an instrument, (like a bass guitar clipping at only one or two notes in it's range,, it's not always a bad thing to back off, but you will probably lose some low end and have to make up for it somewhere,,,, hell i could be wrong though, you just got to go through the BS of ruling out every potential problem till the last one remaining is found.... that's always it!!!!!
     
  12. recman

    recman Guest

    guys i totaly appreaciate al the help and i will work on it ad test al what u said and tell u what is result :)
     
  13. recman

    recman Guest

    hi guys
    i have tried all what u said
    ther eis no Pad added
    and set hte max db when he screams at -6db it is alot better but damn when he sings normal words it sounds sooo low :(
     
  14. jonyoung

    jonyoung Well-Known Member

    Set your levels for -6db peak and use (if you have one that will do this) a compressor with a negative ratio setting. That way it acts as an expander and will boost the low level portions of the track upwards. On some vocals that are really dynamic, I use a low ratio compressor and also a limiter to tame both ends of the dynamics if necessary.
     
  15. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    :)
    welcome to recording
     
  16. recman

    recman Guest

    so that it is so far hte solutions :( damn it is so hard :(
     
  17. wayne

    wayne Guest

    But now at least you have a known undistorted signal to work with, and you can now check to see if those earlier nasties come back with the compression back in. (Or maybe do some volume rides on the low parts and less compression to boot. 8)
    Wayne
     
  18. Kev

    Kev Well-Known Member

    yes

    use a plug compressor and then lower the threshold on to it ....
    this will make it seem even quieter
    BUT
    use the gain make-up and bring the level back up near the 0dbFS and you should have what you want

    2:1 to 6:1 and experement with as much as 12dB ... or 16dB of compression
    that is a LOT but it will give you an idea of how things work.
     
  19. recman

    recman Guest

    again thx alot guys i will try my best with your precious help :)
     
  20. recman

    recman Guest

    guys i finally think i am getting great results
    i decreased db and let my vocal come alot closer to the mic
    now when he sings low words his voice is outstanding and the sound comes soo deep and infront
    but when he wants to scream he has to go back a little (which so far i think is a must even if u decrease db and put compressor -correct me if i am wrong about this please :) )
    there is no clipping and quality is great but he sounds farand behind or in back i dont kno wwhat the english term for this
    even though he is only like getting back his head like 5 cintemeters or 10 max
    so wht to do ? any solution for example euqalizing it inmixing ?
     

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