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What do you think of this?

Discussion in 'Recording' started by Semt-X, Aug 31, 2004.

  1. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    Hi all,

    Im starting to create my home studio. I wanna make music like Aerosmith, Velvet Revolver, 36 Crazyfists, System of a Down, Nightwish...
    I have some gear already but i have some more on a wishlist. Just wanna know what you all think about it?

    I already have:
    Epiphone Les Paul st.
    Fender DG-5
    Line6 PodXt
    Edirol PCR-50 MIDI Keyboard Controller

    My computer is configured:
    P4 2,4 Ghz
    768 mb DDR PC 2100 (2x256 PC2100 & 1x256 PC3200)
    2x80gb Hard Disc (RAID)
    ESI WaveTerminal 192M
    Asus P4-533E Motherboard
    Leadtek GeForce4 ti 4800 128mb ( i believe??)

    I wanna get the following stuff:
    Bassguitar - Dean Edge 4 TBK or Yamaha RBX270 or Yamaha BB 404 or Washburn XB120
    Electric Guitar - Ibanez RG2570
    Monitors - Behringer 2031A or Alesis Monitor One Active MKII or Phonic P6A or ESI nEAR6 or Tannoy Reveal aktive or Tapco S5
    Mixer - Behringer UB1832-fx, if you have other suggestions, please let me know ;-)
    Acoustic guitar - Seagull 12-string (dont know which model) or a Yamaha 12-string (amped or not?)
    Microphone - Shure SM57 or Rode NT1 or Behringer B2 (pro) with a standard and a de-plopper

    Further id like to get a Basspod for my bassguitar, because a DI is expensive and a basspod is like a DI only with ampmodels, is this correct? And for software i wanna get Cubase SX 2. Also some more stuff, but i dont think thats usefull to write in this post.

    So what do you think? Am i getting a good quality sound with this? Its for hobby use only, so no professional stuff....

    Please, if you have any suggestions, let me know.

  2. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    The instruments you mention are all just fine. I will restrict my comments to the recording gear you have outlined for us. It amazing what kind of recordings can be done with this type of gear but the stuff you mention is all pretty cheap stuff. Is the quality good? Not really .. I will say I seriously doubt that any of the bands you mentioned use this type of stuff when they record. What you record will most likely not be as warm or fat sounding as a real record made by any of the bands like Aerosmith or Velvet Revolver... Those guys record in very high end situations... you can get close but there will always be a part that will be elusive to capture until you have great mics, mic pres, eq's , compressors and great monitors in a great listening environment. My experience has shown me that most people, with a bit of effort can get about 90% of the way, no matter what they are using .. It's that last 10% that is hard (and expensive) to attain.
  3. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    I understand that im not getting the full 100% with this. It also have a money problem, just like everybody else. But to give you a example. Everybody said to me, use tubeamps and stuff. Im very pleased with my Line6 PodXT. Its not the full 100% but its getting close...... So this is what i came up with. What do you suggest?

    Also, im gonna use this stuff for my own, not to mix and make records out of it. Just wanna make some songs, in reasonable/good quality. Just for entertainment!

    But anyways, thanks for your comment!
  4. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    Well, I thought I said that for what you want to do it's all fine ... Just don't fool yourself that what you're getting is as good as what the "big kids" use, 'cause it ain't ... If you want me to say this stuff is great and will enable you to make great sounding records, well that's just not going to happen ... that stuff is mostly cheap and from my point of reference not the greatest sounding gear.

    On the other hand, at the point you are at, I would say that learning different production techniques and actually having the chance to hear what you are playing is of great value. There's nothing that will prompt a learning player into becoming better than listening to playbacks. The recorder don't lie baby!

    For your goals, the stuff you propose to use should work very well ...
  5. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    Thanks for all the help, but what do you suggest?
    Do you suggest a other mixer with some external 19" effects???
    Or other monitors? Or a totally different list?
  6. Ellegaard

    Ellegaard Active Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Central Copenhagen
    Listen to any monitors you are going to buy! As always, when you're on a budget, look for China-gear in general as you often get a lot for your money there. Studio Projects, ADK are two brands that make nice price microphones that compare favorably to more expensive types.

    Stick to Cubase SX2, great sequencer, lots of features, very professional. Initially I would get hans on some VST effects; there's a lot of free stuff of high quality out there, like the Kjaerhus plugins, IR reverb, and Blockfish compressor. Even if you consider buying some, the value tends to be greater when buying software effects rather than hardware effects.
  7. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    What kind of monitors do you suggest? Im going to test some of them but its always nicer to know more monitors te check out! Im thinking of getting a Behringer B2Pro or Rode NT1 microphone, have heard some good things about those... What kind of mixers do you suggest?

    Thanks for so far!
  8. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    You are going to hear good things abou a lot of stuff that really sucks. Manufacturers often have someone cruise these types of forums and pump up their gear to the public and argue their case when negative remarks are made. It is very cheap advertizing. When you consider how the Internet works with all the search functions, if you get a dozen or so posts going on a thread, when someone performs a search, the topic will pop up on the first search page.. Very cost effective.

    For almost all this stuff, cheap sucks .... sorry, but good gear usually costs ... there are a few exceptions and that's why we are here, ... to try to steer you in that direction.

    For monitors, the only decent thing I have found so far that is under $1000 is the Yamaha MSP5's ...$500 a pair.

    For mics, look to the Studio Projects offerings if you are on a budget. A B1 large diaphragm condenser is $100!


    The C4's are a best buy at $400 for a matched pair!


    If you have a bit more to spend, Audio Technica makes very nice stuff that won't break the bank. The ATM 4033 is a studio standard world wide and is probably one of the best "all around" mics, suitable for many applications ... Under $400 new ..

    For mic pres, .... well not much there that I recommend in the inexpensive catagory. My opinion is you are best off getting a Mackie (not Behringer) mixer and using the pres in that. You may also be able to take adavntage of some of the other features and routing options of the Mackie to mix phones (with effects) and to monitor while you record.
  9. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    Those Yamaha's sound real nice. You think those are the best to get? In that budget of course...
    Also heard from Tannoy Reveal, do know something about that???

    And what do you think of my selection of bass, electric guitar and 12-string???

    Just looked on the Net, and the Yamaha MG series does also sound nice, or am i wrong??? I know, its still a choice but i wanna get some good suggestions or facts!
  10. Ellegaard

    Ellegaard Active Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Central Copenhagen
    I recommend to stay away from Tapco S5. Heard them, they're horrible. I chose Behringer Truth instead of the Tapcos, M-Audio BX5, Alesis M1 and the Yamahas. One thing was their incredible power was impressive, but also because, within that price range, they seemed the most linear to me. But check out the Yamaha MSP5s as well, they're definitely worth listening to.

    Kurt, I've considered the AT4033 for allround purpose, recording vocals, guitars, violin, etc. Reviews seem positive, overall, but one thing that keeps coming up is that it's slightly nasal. Is that also your experience?
  11. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    77 Sunset Lane.
    No, actually the freq response plot on the ATM 4033, shows them to be remarkably flat with a slight "presence" boost in the 5 to 10KHz. range.

    They are very clear sounding and lack a bump in the low end, so perhaps this is what some may be referencing as "nasal" ... but on most instruments and for overheads on drums, I find them to be ideal. I like them a lot on a lot of vocals as well but if a person has a "nasal" sounding voice, the 4033 will not help hide that.
  12. Ellegaard

    Ellegaard Active Member

    Feb 17, 2004
    Central Copenhagen
    Thanks for your opinion. I wish the dealer here sold AT, but I don't really like the idea of buying microphones without having heard them before and not having a chance to return them in case they do not suit my applications...
  13. tundrkys

    tundrkys Guest

    Since we know that we will be operating at a little less than 100%, can the BassPOD idea. There have been a few Major label releases where the Bass was DI'd through the regular Guitar POD, and a number of us at home who still use it that way.
  14. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    ok here i go...
    bass i would really check the yamaha BB 605! it's a five string bass and trust me that B string is very usefull! if you can afford more check the yamaha TRB 1005! great bass too!
    buy the bass pod too! it's a great tool too!
    electric guitar- stay out of the ibanez! i'm a guitar man and trust me ibanez really suck! they're for metal heads! i'd really recommend a fender american strat (deluxe if you have the $$)
    monitors - stay out of all behringer stuff! they're cheap because they sound cheap! Kurt mentioned those yamaha! good choice, but don't forget to see the acoustics of the room!
    why do you want a mixer?
    buy something like a motu 828 mkII! it has 20 inputs! 2 xlr where you can connect the mics! if you need another pre-amps depends on your budget! if you want to use faders buy a tascam 2400 but this only if you really need it!
    are u an amateur? do you have very good midi/audio knowledge? if it's not the case forget cubase sx2! it's like giving a 1st class computer for someone who only uses word!
    try adobe audition! it's a great tool! amazing really!
    mic speaking sm57 is a fact! you want to record good acoustic guitar and vocals try the studio project stuff that kurt mentions!
    and why do you need a 12 string guitar? doesn't the pod simulates one? do you use that much?
    the reason i really think the motu or similiar (e-mu 1820 is cheaper and may be the right choice!) is because you should look at the future! and you may like to record more than 2 tracks at the same time!
  15. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    Thanks for your oppinion.

    The Yamaha is definitly one im gonna check, but i dont see why i should get a 5string. Im a metalplayer but also wanna make some rock...
    Ive played some times on the Ibanez and i must say, i think its a great guitar. The things i wanna do with a guitar is possible on that one.... Like diving and stuff...... Maybe i will check that Fender, thanks for that one..
    Im gonna check a lot of monitors but i dont understand what you ment with acoustics.... Its the meaning that im gonna play at home and do not have an acoustic room, its not isolated and stuff.....
    A mixer, well i believe you'll need one the mix your song? The thing is that im gonna play on my one, not in a band or anything...

    Ive think that Cubase has a lot of features, and dont know this Audition but i wanna have full functionality of everything... Could someone explain to me whats the difference between Cubase SE and Cubase SX??
    Im gonna check that mic also, heard some good stuff from you all.
    And i wanna have a 12-string guitar because of the sound you're getting out of it. Im not gonna use it much, but its always handy.....

    So far, thanks everybody.
  16. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    i meant the acoustics of the room! if you get 500$ monitors you better have a decent room with some bass traps, and auralex-kind of products! if not you want take advantage of the good monitors!
    adobe audition is great and if i'm right is way much cheaper than cubase! trust me that adobe audition (aka cool edit pro 2) is a great underrated tool! i've been using it for years and really love! it so easy to use and achieves great results!
    if you're a metal head the ibanez may be good for you! 5 string is great for metal too cause you don't need to tune for example drop D! and for that strong sound trust me it's great!
    for mixing how do plan on mixing with a mixer something you've recorded when you don't have a soundcard with the outputs needed... i've been mixing for years with the mouse! if you want to mix buy a control surface like the tascam 2400!
    as for the 12 string acoustic i just don't get it... it seems to me you're around 17 when you think all those tools are needed and don't have the experience (you remind me of myself :? )
    specially if you are a metal head... 12 string acoustic... ok... go guess
  17. Semt-X

    Semt-X Guest

    Ouch, 17......... hmmmmzzz
    Well im 23 and pretty new to this stuff. But no hard feelings ;-)
    Well, im surely gonna check out the 5 string basses, sounds good!
    Also gonna check Adobe Audition, thanks for that!
    So what you're saying is that i dont need a mixer, that im gonna add nothing but "junk" to my studio?
    And what kind of preamp do i need for my mic??? I know that that is pretty fuzzy because there are so many..
    Sure gonna check out the Tasscam 2400.....

    I do have a 6string Fender acoustic, compare that to that mic we've resently talked about, will that be a good choice????

    Well, thanks again!
  18. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    ok... you're a newbie...

    the thing about the mixer is this!
    if you buy an analog mixer you'll only use it for connecting mics, bass, etc... (i have a behringer 2004 from my 17 fase) :lol:
    i only use it for mics and bass, etc... as you can guess i don't mix what i hear in my computer! i'd need a soundcard with the outputs and the things i'd mix with the mixer wouldn't apply in the recording! so i'd have to put what i'd done with the mixer in the recorded song! for example you have a drum loop, bass and two guitars and a sound card that has the outputs connected to the inputs of the mixer! if i move the fader in one track of the mixer it won't apply to the recorded stuff! get it? so how can you mix with faders? simple! either you buy a digital mixer, yamaha 01v96 for example with the adat cards and the sound card, rme digi for example! this way you can use the mixer! but i'm guessing money is an issue, so i'd recommend nothing! only if later you don't feel confortable without the faders and mixing only with the mouse! then i'd see a control surface like the tascam 2400!
    as for the mic pres kurt can give you a great advice! don't buy cheap ones! they sound cheap! so if you buy the e-mu 1820 sound card, you'll get 2 great pre-amps! so don't need the pre-amps, unless you pay around 1000$ for channel!
    as for the mics, kurt says that the c4 is great... i'm thinking of buying it for drum overheads! if you can afford try the akg 451!
    but kurt can give you better info on that!
  19. Big_D

    Big_D Well-Known Member

    Aug 21, 2004
    Quakertown PA
    My first concern is your PC setup. Are you running the RAID as stripe or mirror? Mirror is okay but if the drives get out of sync you'll have to rebuild the array. Not a major concern but time consuming (large drives can take hours). Stripe is a whole different story. You'd better be on a UPS of some sort or one little power blip while the drives are writing and you could end up losing all of your data. Days, weeks or even years of songs couls be lost. IMO stripe is not worth the risk in exchange for a tiny performance gain. IMO you would be better served by tweaking your BIOS and disabling RAID. You could setup one drive for OS and programs and the other just for storing your songs, and don't forget backup, backup, backup. FYI your memory will only run as fast as the slowest memory in your system so that PC3200 is only running at the same speed as PC 2100.

    As far as other gear listen to what Kurt and the others are telling you, not reviews at other web sites. Companies pay people to post great reviews on total crap. I took the advice of the people on this forum and I am very happy with my choices not only because this stuff sounds good but can be used in a lot of different ways. This gear will be useful to me even in the future when I step up to better mic's and pre's because it's quality gear. These guys know what's good and what's junk. Here's my gear if it helps.

    Mackie 1604 VLZ
    Echo Layla 24's
    Sonar 3
    M-Audio BX8's
    Rode NT-1 (Vocals and ambient mic on guitar cabs)
    SP-C4's (Overheads on drums and accoustic guitar)
    Shure SM57's (Guitar cabs, snare, toms and even vocals)
    AKG-D112 (Kick drum and bass cabs)

    As far as Insturments the same rules apply. Famous musicians are paid by manufactures to endorse and play thier products. Don't buy something because Joe Numbnuts is playing it this week. How does the insturment sound, how does it feel. Listen to it unplugged if it's electric. If it sounds like crap unplugged it's gonna sound like crap plugged in. Is the neck straight, are the frets crowned right, how's the intonation ? One trick I have used is to watch salesman who aren't busy to see what guitars they pick up to play themselves. Don't ask them just watch. They usually have played most of the guitars in the store and have picked out a favorite. Their may be 20 Les Pauls on the wall but they're not all exactly the same. This can help you narrow down your choices. I've invested in quality instruments over the years and this is what I have found works for me.

    (2) Fender American Std. Strat's (1 is tuned down a half step)
    Gibson SG
    Gibson Les Paul
    Fender Jazz Bass
    Ibanez P Bass (old copy of Fender P)
    Mesa Boogie DC3
    Marshall JCM 600
    1950's Gibsonette
    7pc Tama Rockstar and Zildjian A's
    I'll be adding a Fender Super Reverb soon.

    This gives me a variety of tones to fit my recordings. Some of this may fit your needs some may not. Invest wisely and you'll never be sorry.
  20. inLoco

    inLoco Active Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    i too have a ups!
    one day i tried to turn on my pc and nothing! i was in panic cause i had all my music and collegge stuff in it! had 2 friends, one lost his computer and the other the hard drive and the power source! i was very fortunate to have only damaged the power source! :!:
    now i have a ups too! don't wanna take no more chances! for 100 bucks u can get one good!

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