What is the best program to burn cds with?

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by Paladyne, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Paladyne

    Paladyne Guest

    I mix in Pro Tools. I usually burn cds with Toast. Is there a cd burning program that is so good you wish everyone used it when burning their cds that you will master?

    I am on a mac running OS9.

    many thanks in advance,

  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    Well, there is toast, masterlist CD, waveburner, sparkle xl, Jam, and probably a few others.
  3. Don Grossinger

    Don Grossinger Distinguished past mastering moderator Active Member

    Time after time with me, the Sonic Solutions System with the Sony CDW-900E burner has been VERY reliable
  4. Paladyne

    Paladyne Guest

    Good stuff. Thanks very much!

  5. mykla

    mykla Guest

    I was sceptical when a well respected mastering engineer told me that different cd-burner softwares produce different sounding CDs...So I took the mastered audiofile to the studio and burned CDs with all the applications I had.(Toast/Jam/Masterlist) When I compared the CD that I received from the mastering house (written with Sonic Solutions) to the ones I prepared, the difference was jaw-dropping. :( but then... I did what I thought I'd never do... I bought a PC for burning CDs... Sterling Sound uses mostly the fairly expensive Sequioa software now as an alternative to Sonic, which makes great sounding CDs. The good news is that Samplitude and Sequioa use the same algorhythms for red-book cd-burning. And even the cheapest version of Samplitude does the trick. I seriously recommend it to everybody.
  6. BarefootStudios

    BarefootStudios Active Member

    Any comments on how Wavelab stacks up? I have Wavelab 3.0 and a Yamaha CRW4416S Burner,and it works solid as a rock. Thanks, Barefoot
  7. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott Active Member

    The newest wavelab(4.01) is fine, with the latest plextor burner.
  8. everett

    everett Guest

    The search for the best CD burner is a needle in a haystack. You won't find an answer because the the quality of the disc is not just dependent on the drive/burner. If you really research this in depth you end up having to consider paramenters such as the tuning of the laser wavelength in the burner relative to the dye material in the disc. When all said and done however, the end user has very little knowledge/control over the physics ao I'll give you some hard tried and tested rules. Although a little black/white, aka simplistic, if you follow this you will consistently get CDs with low error rates although if you must have the lowest error then you will need to have the disc analysed.

    Rule 1. On PCs never burn CD Red Book on any burner that isn't a SCSI burner on a correctly set up SCSI bus.

    Rule 2 Only select high end model burners from Yamaha and Plextor (both SCSI models of course). Ignore ALL other models including badged/rebranded versions of the above.

    Rule 3 Only use drives external to the PC not mounted internal with the other hardware.

    Rule 4 Burn at x 2 speed NOT slower not faster ( regardless of the disc material)

    If you do all four you will get results close to the professional industrial setups.

    Finally, before everyone jumps all over me and write they get great results not following this setup, I am not saying this is the ONLY way to record low error red book audio. I am saying that IF you use this method then you will be more LIKELY to achieve low error recordings and cut down the effect of the variables that compound to make errors likely.
  9. What about an Alesis Masterlink? How does it stack up against PC burning?
    I have owned mine for 4 years and I 'think' I have been getting fine results with it.
    I can't control how fast it burns however.
    My apologies if this has been covered but it seems relevant to this thread.

  10. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    I have to disagree. it's the combination that matters. you have 3 variables and that includes the burner, the speed and the media. It's getting harder and harder to find media that burns at lower speeds, as well as burners that burn at lower speeds. Dies are being designed to be optimized at higher speeds and if burnt at lower speed will produce more errors. it's really the combination of the 3 that needs to be tested. I've never tested a masterlink so I can't comment on that.
  11. vagelis

    vagelis Guest

    Sorry but for me is very hard to believe that there are so big differences between the burning softwares. Ok if you're talking about converting, this is another story.
    If I bounce as AIFF 16 bit and I import the file in the Toast there's nothing to convert. It burns what I give without converting anything, BUT sometimes I forget and I bounce as Wave File. Then the Toast converts the File. Well I never checked the difference between these 2 things but it could be that the Wave one sounds "bad".

    Ok, let's burn on a PC with Sonic. How do you want to tranfer the file to the PC? You have to burn the File on Mac and after to import the File............are you sure that everything could work fine? I would't take that risk.

    Anyway for me the safest way was and is not to transfer the File 10.000 times before burning

  12. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    We've talked about this before somewhere, i can't remember. But some software runs the audio through their audio engine and you can hear it. Mostly the kinds that are all in one that try to do many things. Some only run it though their engine if you alter it, unaltered it doesn't. Some also load the audio into large buffers and then spit it out, a few "transfers" going on there and who knows what else. I'm not keen enough about software codes and what is actually going on.
  13. blackbox

    blackbox Guest

    Jeeeeeezus Friggin Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Isn't it just a question of math?!?!?!
    In this digital age we have brought upon ourselves, shouldn't it just be a matter of low error rate? This drive good, this drive bad; this media sucks, this media rocks?
    How is there not a straight answer to this? this is one of the most crucial things we do as engineers: we PRINT mixes/masters!
    Can we do this with consumer-type warp speed drives? \Can we do this with consumer-type programs that most people are just using to burn MP3's with? Can we use CD-Rs from WalMart? SCSI vs Firewire/USB? What friggin gives?!?!?
    It either makes a difference or it doesn't. Which is it and if so, which ones work?!?!
  14. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    It's a matter of degree. you can go down to compusa and buy the cheapest setup possible and it will burn and it will play and all is good. We are discussing the finer details of creating the best discs consistently and reliably that will be used for manufacturing. I spend a lot of time mastering material for people that spend all of their money on a project. I don't want to drop the ball burning the final disc, as most don't. I want to get back what i put in. Because there are many variables in peoples setups, it's not as easy as it should be, unless you have a Sadie or a Sonic. These are setup to work as a unit. They come packaged and tested to work right. If you don't have these then you have to piece something together that will get the same results so YOU are now R&D. If you find this frustrating, well it can be, then pay for a system that has done all the research and has been tested. If you don't have the money to buy one of these systems, then read a learn by our mistakes, or not. What's the best microphone?, depends. what's the best mic pre?, depends on the microphone and what's being recorded. When you combine many things, variables exist that must be takin into account. system, software, interface, burner, media. within these variables there are sub variables. System software and speed, interfaces (scsi, firewire, usb, ide, atapi). burner brand and model and speed, media type and speed. Lots of variables all producing different results, some large, some small. That's why we call this mastering, attention to the finer details.
  15. Thomas W. Bethel

    Thomas W. Bethel Well-Known Member

    I get people all the time asking what they should get for burning CDs. When you suggest Plextor they say "Yuck I don't want to spend that kind of $$$ for a CD burner" So they go a purchase a no name CD burner for $40.00 and then go a buy no name CDs for $10.00 for 100 and then they wonder why their stuff had problems playing on most CD players and why there are dropouts and noise pulses on their CDs.

    It you are a professional then you use professional equipment PERIOD. The one place not to scrimp is on the recorder that makes the CDs that you use to promote your band or for sales to your adoring fans.

    Get a Plextor (USB2 or SCSI) and get good CDRs like Taiyo Yudens and you will have less problems and get better results. END OF STORY!

    Hope this helps....
  16. blackbox

    blackbox Guest

    good deal....
    seems like it should be less subjective, however.
    but that all makes complete sense and thanks btw.
  17. Don,
    What Sonic software are you using. On their site, all I could find was dvd burning software. Are you using one of those for CDs?
  18. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    sonic solutions used to be a part of sonic then they split off and became there own company. if you do a search for sonicstudio ( I think) you should find them. they only have sonic hd now and I think Don was using sonic classic. Don hasn't been around here lately but he'll be back shortly. I'll let him tell everyone the news when he gets settled.
  19. BladeSG

    BladeSG Guest

    What do you guys think of the Verbatim/Mitsubishi 'Super AZO' and 'Metal AZO' media?
  20. FifthCircle

    FifthCircle Well-Known Member

    I use Sequoia here and love it... As somebody else said, Samplitude will get you the same kind of results (it is just missing some features that Sequoia has). I use Plextor Premium burners and have had very low error rates with them.

    As for differences in sound- it really depends on the kind of processing you are doing during the burn. If you leave your audio at unity, and you are using the same dither on different programs, if everything is working correctly, you should have the same result. As for burn speeds- listen on a jitter-immune DAC with data-identical discs and I think you'd be hard-pressed to hear differences from CD to CD.

    For those asking about Sonic- the DAW side after the split is found on the web at: http://www.sonicstudio.com


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