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Where the bass and guitars meet

Discussion in 'Bass' started by damster, Feb 7, 2002.

  1. damster

    damster Guest

    Hi all.

    I noticed some nice talk about frequency carving here and have a question.

    I am working with an acoustic guit rhythym(rock tune)that has an electric guitar adding fill notes and ambience chords.We haven't yet tracked the bass but I am noticing that there isn't much room for one.I know that I could just omit the bass but am certain that adding it will increase the songs sense of power.My main concern is losing the openness of the track(lots of verb and empty space in the stereo image which I feel is getting lost by excess amounts of frequency).Sooo... As mastering engineers who deal with freq. carving (often?),do you have any tricks for me to slide the bass in there like it was invited and maybe open up the track as well?
  2. Ang1970

    Ang1970 Well-Known Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    I would suggest asking this in either a production or mixing forum. (Not both!)
  3. errollem

    errollem Guest

    Hi Damster, Ang1970 is maybe right about your question. b.t.w. your nicknames are maybe also
    for a different forum. :D

    But maybe this helps you a bit.

    In the first place, it depends how important the bas is in the song and how it is played.
    I mean how is the arrangement.
    If you have the feeling that you are losing openess then you can think of compression
    but also EQ.

    Last weekend we recorded a bassplayer and put it through the new teletronics of UA.
    The bass player was doing all the tricks you can do on the bas like slapping etc.
    The teletronics was translating everything on a musical way.
    Because the arrangement was in balance I did'nt have to do so much on the bas.
    Sometimes I did a little eq dipping with small q-factor on the 200Hz range and because there were lower parts in the song I used a low-shelf from
    80Hz. That keeped the transparancy.

    This is ofcourse just my experience in one song
    but maybe it can help you. Every song is different although I think that basics are basics. The rest is a matter of taste.

    Luck with your mixes,

  4. bassmac

    bassmac Guest

    I like my bass to be fairly up front, but I always had to EQ the crap out of it to keep it from killing everything else, which then killed the bass tone as well.

    I just got an UA1176, and my early report - is that my struggle seems to be over. It just has a way of making the bass fit in perfectly...without much EQ.
  5. damster

    damster Guest

    Thanx for the replies guys!

    This question was posted for a particular song I was working on and since then I have come up with some good recipe.Someone had posted somewhere else that the guy who mixed the stones would mute the bass and then mix the rest of the song to taste filtering out much of the low-low mid of guitars etc. If he thought they were going to interfere(something like that).From there it was a matter of unmuting the bass and fine tuning.......I like stones records so I thought.....okay I'll give it a go.

    The thing is I am the bass player on the track and I had'nt layed it down yet(or vocals).I am a believer in mixing a song heavily before the singer comes in so that the song sounds complete when they sing.It really adds to their enthusiasm when laying down the takes.

    Since the the stones mixing trick did'nt require bass until the end,I figured I would mix the song before I played so that I could get the same enthusiastic feeling as the singer when laying down my bass part..............Well I got more than I bargained for.First I spent probably way to much time mixing this song but in the end I am happy with almost every little detail.I left a healthy freq hole for the bass but also felt the song sounded great without the bass.Almost to the point where it could live without one.Kinda like something Prince would do.

    So there was only finding the tone of the bass and laying down the track left to do before the singer came in to do his parts.In pre-pro I had played the bass a certain way and thought it sounded good.Good groove and the right sensabilities for the song.However after I had achieved the tone I wanted to lay down,I noticed the part I once played was now not going to work.The overdubs of electric guitar changed the vibe too much.The bass part just did'nt fill the holes the right way anymore.At this point I thought the bass was now taking away from the song rather than adding to it.I had to revamp the lines........BOOOOOM ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE WAS A HUGE CRACK OF THUNDER AND THE TIDAL WAVES STARTED FLOOD THE EARTH(my studio)!!!!!!!!

    Maybe give this a try and see what you think.

    I hope I will get permission from my client to post an MP3 after release date. :)

    P.S. If you are using inferior gear like I am,don't worry so much about the things you SHOULD be using like top of line stuff.Work on making the biggest impact with what you have and letting the music do the rest.Great art has always been repressed.

    Damian Jacobs
    Cloud Sound Recording
    Pro Tools LE(001)
    Yamaha 1642 console
    Rode NT1
    Shure SM94-57
    A whole lotta bleed.

    'I get by with a little help from friends.'
  6. errollem

    errollem Guest

    Hi Damian,

    Your quote:
    You are right about that. I guess that if this kind of questions are on the forum it is better first to know what tools you're using.

    If you have the possibility to use this tools like 1176 or teltronic in a mix (with budget), JUST DO IT. It will make live much easier and your customer will love it.

    Good luck

  7. damster

    damster Guest

    I heer dat!
  8. stedel

    stedel Guest

  9. damster

    damster Guest

    Hi Stedel!

    I love to hear(read) opinions.Lot's o' the music I love is made with large budgets and well fed musicians.But I think the stuff that changes the face of modern acceptance always has to come from repression.That's ART. Portraying an emotion of a spirit that has not been accepted by society.The only one form of expression that keeps the artist from killing you.......literally.....like Rap(now a modern glam metal).All other forms are (TO ME).....entertainment or a sharing of emotion(for said dollars paid of course).Possibly a 'voice' for teenagers to have what their feeling during puberty be laid out for them via lyrics that describe their feelings combined with agressive sonic textures allowing them to 'vent' all of this energy that they themselves do not yet know how to describe.With all of the troubles in the world this light hearted stuff is no match for ART.

    Enough of my ignorant ranting :w: .......y'all take now .......y'hear?

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