where to do final dithering ?

Discussion in 'Mastering' started by DefBringa, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. DefBringa

    DefBringa Guest

    hi folks, im pretty new to your board...

    my first question is about dithering.
    i think that i already pretty well know what it does, what its good for and all that stuff...

    i am working on a DAW and want to know what program or application to use for the final bit depth change when dithering is applied.

    it is pretty difficult to find out what dithering algorithms the programs use...
    i have heard that the noise shaping option of the POW type 3 dither should sound best but the only application to offer this in my environment is the tc powercore master x5...

    usually im using soundforge to do my audio editing but i think that its resampling and dithering etc does not really sound like high end stuff...

    i am also using an rme converter, do you think that replaying my final mix from the sequencer in 24bit and at the same time recording it to 16bit and applying dithering with the converter could be better than bouncing my track down to a 24bit file and then do bit depth change with dithering in a software program ???

    i know, thats a lot of questions, but i hope you can help me...

    cheerz in advance, daniel
  2. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    i think keep your masters at 24 bit and then dithering down would be better than another conversion. There are many kinds of dither and they sound different. I use uv22, idr, pow-r. it all depends on what your tastes are. There are many dithering plugins available for many platforms. I would play around with some and find what meets your tastes.
  3. DefBringa

    DefBringa Guest

    thanks a lot for ur reply.

    could you maybe recommend some ?

    im searching for some that dither at proper quality...

  4. launchpad67a

    launchpad67a Guest

    I like the 'Waves L1 Ultramaximizer'. It's one of the best plugins you can own.

  5. David French

    David French Well-Known Member

    Michael, that is an awesome new avatar you have there. Quite impressive. I own several of those.
  6. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    David, thanks. It took me two days to compile it and put it together.
    Defbringa, The ones I mentioned are a good place to start. There is debate over which are better but it's really up to the individual.
  7. DefBringa

    DefBringa Guest

    yes, but where can use them ?

    since i do not use hardware to dither i need to know which software supports the dithering types that u mentioned ?

    can i use them in soundforge, wavelab, peak or something ?
  8. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    You can get UV22 as a plugin, infact the all come as TDM plugins. But with TDM you need the hardware. They might also come as RTAS but I'm not sure. Sorry I can't help more.
  9. longrun

    longrun Guest

    tc electronics spark xl mastering software has good dithering
  10. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    the pow-r dither sounds best but the dither in the waves L2 is allright for semi-pro use... the L1 is fine too... for 8bit!!!
  11. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    the Waves L2 runs at 48bit = you have to use the dither to scale down and have a decent 24/16bit output.
    What kind of music are you working on when you don't use the dither?
  12. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    what Henrik is saying is that if your using the L2, it processes at 48 bit and you should dither that down to 24 bit coming out of the unit. Otherwise your truncating. the only way to do this is if you use the internal IDR dither which in my opinion, sounds good. This goes with most digital processors, even outboard stuff. Most process at higher that 24 bit and need to be dithered down, the only way of doing that is with whatever they decided to put in their unit. Some use powr, IDR, uv22.
  13. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    hej henrik!

    I was trying to make a joke about the sound of the L1 !!!
    it is so rusty that the only thing good about it is the ability to dither to 8bit!!

    of course i use dither... I dither my 24bit files to 16bit using the pow-r type 2 dither found in waveburner.

    I must admit that i don't dither inside the L2... I hope that waves have taken care of internal dithering!!!
    it would be a disaster if allplug-ins(that process in more than 24bit) truncate their output!

    respect and regards og venlig hilsen
  14. Ammitsboel

    Ammitsboel Member

    Hej z-r-ström... is there a real name?

    Are you doing mastering? or recording and mastering?
    Are you using Waveburner as your only program?
    What do you use for monitoring? and signal processing?

    Best Regards/Med venlig hilsen
  15. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    I'm doing mixing mastering and sometimes recording

  16. Michael Fossenkemper

    Michael Fossenkemper Distinguished past mastering moderator Well-Known Member

    How do you like that Fairman eq?
  17. I really don't understand what the big beef with L1 is. I hear a lot of people talk about how bad it sounds - I use it quite a bit for gentle volume adjustments and have had no issues with it.

    I don't, however, use the IDR - I do my SRC and dithering with WaveLab's internal components.
  18. iznogood

    iznogood Member

    the fairman eq is the sweetest sounding eq on the planet!!! warm and full without the loose-sounding bass of eg. tubetech...

    not for small adjustments but for the really broad eq sweetening it is second to none!! if i remember it correctly it has a 3 oct. range at the lowest q-setting.

    i use on every master i do sometimes in chain with the avalon that is more clinical sounding because (of course) it is solid state circuits

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