1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

Which HDR for Client "Bedroom" collaborations

Discussion in 'Pro Audio Equipment' started by RandomGuest, Dec 26, 2001.

  1. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Lately clients have been asking me for recommendations as to which of the current crop of hardware hard disk recorders they should buy. Their goal is to be able to take mixes of rhythm tracks, etc. that they do in my studio back to their "bedroom" so that they can add some overdubs at their leisure, without the pressure of my clock running.
    Anyone have any recommendations, or at least some plusses and minuses, between the Tascam, Mackie, Alesis, or whatever else is out there? I'm assuming they are probably interested in one of the 24 track 24 bit models that are available.
     
  2. rivers

    rivers Guest

    You might get them to check out a Yamaha Aw4416 its 24 bit-16 track,I,ve had one for about a year and it would fit the bill nicely as a standalone HD recorder/mixer.
    Rivers
     
  3. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    I'm guessing they want those things that are like a tricked out portastudio with a hard drive. Or they think they want one, as mileage can truly vary here.

    Rivers, is that the full scale all in one unit or the stripped down model? The learning curve on at least the full featured Yamaha might be more than musicians might be able to deal with. I'd think in terms of cassete like controls for easiest use with less rope than they can hang themselves with.

    Littledog, what format(s) are you working in your studio? What's going to be easy to import without low grade d/a / a/d conversion? I'm figuring even 8 tracks should be sufficient, 2 for rough mix, 6 for overdubs, but that might not work for everyone w/ Sgt. Pepper ambitions. If they're made of money, I suppose the stripped down Mackie HDR could work, but with the expected 1604 as the console, that's only useful for the indecisive who can't decide which of 22 takes at the solo is best.

    Bear
     
  4. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
    I'm guessing they want those things that are like a tricked out portastudio with a hard drive. Or they think they want one, as mileage can truly vary here.

    Littledog, what format(s) are you working in your studio? What's going to be easy to import without low grade d/a / a/d conversion? I'm figuring even 8 tracks should be sufficient, 2 for rough mix, 6 for overdubs, but that might not work for everyone w/ Sgt. Pepper ambitions. If they're made of money, I suppose the stripped down Mackie HDR could work, but with the expected 1604 as the console, that's only useful for the indecisive who can't decide which of 22 takes at the solo is best.

    Bear


    I'm using a ProTools 24 bit TDM system. I was figuring if they got something at 24 bit it would be both more forgiving in terms of recording levels and could be dumped via AES (or some other way?) back into my sessions for mixdown. I realize that there may be some "drifting" due to multiple clocking issues, but since these tend to be more "solo" types of overdubs (not basic rhythm tracks) nudging things back into place may work okay. Most of these clients (truthfully, we're only talking about a handful) are at least willing to consider something at or below $2000, and already have at least some kind of mixer and a mic or two. Typically this would be someone who already owns an elderly ADAT, and is thinking it is time to upgrade before it croaks.
     
  5. planet red

    planet red Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    The tascam 2424 can record to a hard drive that can be loaded into a hot swap drive (? i dont know much about this stuff) and since it records to SDII you can pull all the files up in PT. Im about to get the tascam so i read it somewhere but dont know any details. Take a look at the site...
     
  6. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Why spend more money and "upgrade" if what they own is working? Tell them to spend the $2000 on a better mic and preamp.
     
  7. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Originally posted by Jay Kahrs:
    Why spend more money and "upgrade" if what they own is working? Tell them to spend the $2000 on a better mic and preamp.

    a) Jay - have you ever actually owned an ADAT? ADATs (especially old ones) are a pain in ass. Vintage ones record only at 16 bit/48k (I like to work at 24/44.1), and, if you are an ADAT owner, you soon find out that "working" is a euphemism for "in the shop as often as in the home". Some would say that the term working ADAT is a true oxymoron.

    b) I don't have an ADAT bridge - so that means both the A/D and the D/A ADAT converters will be adding their special "sound".

    c) These clients like the idea of being able to fool around with comping their own solos together out of multiple takes, as well as manipulating the audio in other ways that the ADAT can't do.

    d) Hey, I'm just happy they are still interested in using my services at all. I can't "tell them" to do anything. If I could, I'd tell them just to do everything at my place, and pay me the $2000. :D
     
  8. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Isn't PT rumored to be coming out with a different packaging of LE? I think it's supposed to have a two channel USB in/out with focusrite pres, supposed to retail under $500. If they have computers and aren't afraid of it, that could work perfectly. If you're worried about them just finishing it at home, demonstrate the difference between good TDM's and RTA's, as well as your expertise.

    Bear
     
  9. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
    Isn't PT rumored to be coming out with a different packaging of LE? I think it's supposed to have a two channel USB in/out with focusrite pres, supposed to retail under $500. If they have computers and aren't afraid of it, that could work perfectly. If you're worried about them just finishing it at home, demonstrate the difference between good TDM's and RTA's, as well as your expertise.

    Bear


    Actually, if this is true, sounds like the perfect solution - at least the files will be 100% compatible and easily transferred. And for the price of an HDR, I could get the PT system and a laptop for myself - maybe even rent it out.

    I'm not concerned at all about the clients mixing their own - at least, not after they try it once and hear the results. :D
     
  10. Bear's Gone Fission

    Bear's Gone Fission Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    I like the portable idea, too. Hidden benefit: your flogging a dead horse trying to get a track, tell them your burnt and your ears won't help, but if they want to work on it, they can bring back the results tomorrow, so you don't have to go past your bedtime. That and being able to work in a different acoustic enviornment with ease.

    Probably have to wait until at least winter NAMM for the anouncement, though, and god knows when it ships.

    Bear
     
  11. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    Hmm the above suggestion seems cool (when it comes out that is)....

    In the meantime, supercharging ADAT's via cooler converters eg: Lucid / Apogee, might give you as near as dammit the quality you seek for under $1,000 without their having to screw around learning "new $*^t" - depending on your gear demands, perhaps you could loan em a cool mic pre as well. All you have to do then is suck the (well converted) 16 bit or 20 bit audio, digitaly into your PT rig's 24 bit session.(ADAT Bridge i/o or Apogee ABUS card) - It should fit right in.

    If you take an afternoon off to get em up and running nicely, it should serve you well as a way to get remote recorded - good sounding audio onto the final mix.

    For convienience and 'artists ease of use' vibe - I recomend this route.

    :)
     
  12. MadMoose

    MadMoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2001
    Originally posted by littledog:


    a) Jay - have you ever actually owned an ADAT? ADATs (especially old ones) are a pain in ass. Vintage ones record only at 16 bit/48k (I like to work at 24/44.1), and, if you are an ADAT owner, you soon find out that "working" is a euphemism for "in the shop as often as in the home". Some would say that the term working ADAT is a true oxymoron.

    c) These clients like the idea of being able to fool around with comping their own solos together out of multiple takes, as well as manipulating the audio in other ways that the ADAT can't do.


    Yes, actully I've owned three XT's for quite a long time. Other then manually cleaning the heads every 200-300 hours I haven't done anything to them until this summer when one machine got funky. It took a few trips to the shop to get it fixed but it was eventually fixed and has been solid for a few months.

    Do you really want them to comp their solos together for you or would you rather edit them together yourself? How many of your clients could actually edit well if they had to? 95% of mine can't.
     
  13. RandomGuest

    RandomGuest Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2001
    I don't disagree with anything Jay or Julian has said, but on the other hand, i would never stop anyone from upgrading from a funky blackface ADAT to something that sounds better, is more reliable, and has more features - especially if they are eager to do so. In the end it makes life easier (and perhaps even more musical) for them and me, at no cost to me, since it is their own money they are spending. Can you really blame me?

    As a side "benefit", if they want to try fooling around with editing features, hopefully it will only make them appreciate what i do all the more.
     

Share This Page