Why a phase problem when adding reverb?

Discussion in 'Tracking / Mixing / Editing' started by WLoveday, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. WLoveday

    WLoveday Guest

    As the question asks, when I do even a rough mix of some sounds I'll add some reverb. As I turn up the return I here a BIG time phase difference!
    It makes me want to shut it off. I notice this particularly when monitoring in headphones, less in the mains.

    I also here this when I do a mix on a DAW sometimes.

    Can anyone give insight on what causes this, and if there is a fix for it?

    Thanks! :)
     
  2. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    latency?
    I remember the midiverb IV did that a lot when patched back to my 02R. I had to work with lower levels. As gain was increased it sounded flangey.
    I can not remember now, but I have read a few years ago the reason for those cheap reverb boxes acting so crap with phase...
    I will research it.
     
  3. MisterBlue

    MisterBlue Guest

    Most likely the reverb has some phase shifted direct signal in it. If you use the reverb in Send/Return mode make sure that you have a 100% "wet" signal, meaning that no direct signal passes through. Otherwise the delay that is unavoidably introduced will result in these kind of effects. For the reverb alone the small delay/phase shift doesn't really make a difference (unless it is of course too long).

    Pretty sure that that is the cause of your problem. Are you using a plug-in on a DAW or is it an external hardware unit ? Just wondering, my advice/conclusion is the same in both cases.

    MisterBlue.
     
  4. WLoveday

    WLoveday Guest

    Mister blue, that is a really good suggestion, and makes a lot of sense. Thank you. I am working in both a hardware and a DAW environment depending on where I am. I will have to try your idea!

    In hardware I am using a typical send/return setup to the console. The main reverb is a Lexicon MPX1. In Software on the DAW, usually a reverb plug-in (Hopefully one day a UAD-1 or Powercore.)
     
  5. missilanious

    missilanious Guest

    I didn't read all of the posts but its most likely theres still some of the originall signal present in the reverb, when going through an aux send and return, in the digital or analog world thers going to be a slight delay, if you send a signal into and aux going into say a reverb thers a delay so if theres some of the original signal left in the effect that is going to phase and comb, obviously this won't be a problem with a reverb or various effect cause they are completly different than the original "dry" signal, and a slight delay won't be noticable, but if you delay a copy of a signal be somthing tiny like 1ms, or 8 samples that is going to phase, so I would check the wet dry blend and make sure its on 100% wet. Really the only reason to have an outboard effect or plugin wet /dry blend on to anything other than 100% wet is when you wan't to add phasing or running it on an insert.
     
  6. Alécio Costa - Brazil

    Alécio Costa - Brazil Well-Known Member

    remember the DRY KILL function of early ART processors?
    it really killed...lol
     
  7. MisterBlue

    MisterBlue Guest

    C'mon missi, it wasn't that long of a thread, really. Could have saved you a lot of time to read rather than write ... :D .

    MisterBlue.
     
  8. missilanious

    missilanious Guest

    I know, but after reading the thread topic that was the likely canidate that poped into my mind, didn't feel like reading just felt like spilling my knowledge on the topic, sorry if I just expanded on what you said (without reading your post, of course).
     

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