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Wireing a sub to a crown power amp???

Discussion in 'Monitoring / Headphones' started by boxcar, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    Im stuck again, i just bought a new sub to go with my klipsch speakers for my mixing station.
    Speakers=klipsch wf-35's
    Sub=tannoy revolution sub 1001
    Power amp=crown 202 (no sub out).

    The crown has speaker terminals out that are wired to the klipsch and it also has speakon output connectors.
    The sub has right +/- high level speaker connectors and left +/- input speaker connectors.

    I have the sub connected now from studio out on my zed r16 to the L/R RCA inputs on the sub but i have to adjust it for different sources, i.e. cd playback(2 track in) u-tube(ST-1 in) or my mix downs(L/R master).I want to set it and forget it.

    Can i send one of the speakons to the sub(would that drop the ohms rating on one side)Also im not sure if i can use the speaker terminals and tha speakon terminals at the same time on this amp.
    Or is there a way to wire it in series with the speakers somehow or do i need to buy a new amp with a sub out jack.

    I downloaded the manual for the 1001 but there is no connection page and i serched google but no luck.

    I don't really want to start making connections that might blow a speaker or the sub or the amp or all three.
    Could use a clue.Thanks.
     
  2. kmetal

    kmetal Kyle P. Gushue Well-Known Member

    i just wired a bunch of existing crown amps for a local bar's sound system. since there two channel amps, they are meant to feed two speakers, or one bridged. i also had no luck on google for the sub manual. does it hhave a built in crossover? my guess is yes, since it's a powered sub. you should not use both the terminals and speakrons at the same time, if they do transmit sound, your increasing the the load for the amp. picture driving uphill in 4th, vs 2nd gear. sure it works, just not healthy, or pretty.
    i am unfamiliar with your mixer. ideally, you want to send the same passive signal to both your amp, and sub, and adjust the proportions to taste on you sub. perhaps a patchbay, a splitter box. maybe your interface has a 4 outputs? If you send an amp's signal into an amplified unit, you will have problems. I wish i could help more. i'll chime in if i'm certain of anything else.
     
  3. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    I would not use the high level (speaker) sub inputs, but wire the L+R line inputs of the sub in parallel with the L+R line inputs to your Crown amp. Use a variety of music material to set the volume control and HF cut point on the sub to get a reasonable balance between it and the upper speakers. You can then forget about the sub connections, other than the standard need to have it switchable on/off for testing of mixes.

    I normally think that Tannoy products are by and large good value for money (especially here in the UK), but I'm sorry to say I have not had very good impressions from this particular sub. In addition, the user manual for it on the Tannoy web site is one of the worst I have ever seen.
     
  4. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    Thanks for the replies.
    Yes, that is indeed the worse manual ive ever seen and i knew about the reviews on that sub before i bought it.(not well liked).Apparently lacks punch in comparison to some.
    I got it for $400 though on clearance and i have 15 days to return it.
    So far,its working well for me because i only need to bring up the bottom in my system just a hair.(I always mix with slightly to much bass because of the lack there-of.) so it barely has to work.

    So Boswell, not being to familiar with this type of wireing,
    When you say wire the inputs of the sub in parallel with the crown inputs, im not sure what you mean as the crown has XLR in and the sub in has L +/- speaker terminals.
    Could you(or someone) point me to an online diagram perhaps,lol or maybe a more dummy-proof explanation. Im not to sharp with that end of things.
     
  5. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    The main point I was making is not to involve the loudspeaker outputs of the crown amplifier or the loudspeaker-level inputs of the sub. Keep the Crown driving your Klipsch speakers and nothing else, and use the RCA line level inputs of the Tannoy sub.

    You can't parallel wire the connections from the R16 main outputs to the Crown amp inputs because they are balanced, and hooking an unbalanced RCA input in parallel with this XLR connection is not a great idea unless you were to take it through a balun transformer. However, you can use the R16's "2 Track 2 Out" jack outputs, as these are effectively single-ended (although impedance-balanced). You would need a pair of TS jack to RCA connector leads (screened cables) to connect to the RCA inputs on your sub. Make sure you have the "2 Track dub" and "2 Track 1 replace L-R" switches inactive on the R16 front panel.

    There is a relatively large signal on these RCA outputs (+21dBuFS), and it may be that the Tannoy sub's volume control cannot handle this level when your are running the mixer at its nominal outputs, but at least by testing at reduced levels you should be able to tell whether this technique will work. Stitching up an unbalanced attenuator to match the levels at the RCA inputs would be an easy final step if the rest seems to be OK.
     
  6. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    Yeah, i get what your saying now.
    I already have it hooked up in a similar way>out of studio out 1(1/4"to RCA) which gives me a volume control for the sub.
    My main XLR outs go to the mains(yorkville unity U15P's) wich do not require a sub and 2 track 2 out goes to my cdrw2000.

    My mixdown monitors are feed from control room out wich is where i would also like the sub cause everything can be routed there.
    Maybe its time to buy a new amp with sub out or A/B outputs.The 202 is not that great anyway.
    Any recommendations?
     
  7. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    An alternative is to purchase a tunable crossover. Then it will dish out the sub freqs to the Tannoy and then the mains to the Crown. Most live sound racks have a crossover in the rack prior to sending back down the snake to the amp racks. Sometimes it's three way, sometimes much more.
     
  8. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    Thanks for the tip TJA,im going to check that out.
     
  9. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    I see alot of those crossovers on e-bay used/new for around $100 ie Ashley,Carvin,DBX, ect.
    Does the quality of the units affect the end sound to the speakers much. Do cheaper ones add noise to the chain.
     
  10. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    I was using it for live sound so not as critical of listening as a control room. Of the ones you mentioned I would go with Ashly. Boswell or Dawg or Hawk might have more updated advice on a crossover.
     
  11. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    Thanks,it sounds like that's what i need as i can't find any pro amps that have a sub out and it would probably do a better job than the built in crossover in the sub.
    Im happy with that little ahley clx 52 so far for guitar. Its one of those boxes that i feel is worth more than i paid for it.I'll keep digging for noise floor info.
     
  12. Boswell

    Boswell Moderator Distinguished Member

    Because the sub already has LP filtering, my feeling was that he should try it out wired in a rational way but not using a separate crossover. It's usually more important to prevent a sub from strangling the mid/highs than to remove the lows from monitors that can't do much with them anyway.

    I am aware that there can be Doppler effects from the cones of mid-range speakers being fed material that includes large-amplitude low-frequencies, but the resulting intermodulation is usually a second-order effect that can be tackled once the setup is working with the level and cut-off controls on the sub set for best results on a mix of material.
     
  13. boxcar

    boxcar Active Member

    There doesn't seem to be a rational way possible with this setup short of buying "something" so was that a yes,the crossover would work ok?
    That post was technicaly way over my head.lol
     
  14. TheJackAttack

    TheJackAttack Distinguished Member

    Bos is suggesting you go with variation just prior to me butting in. ;-) Use the tape out for your sub.
     

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