1. Register NOW and become part of this fantastic knowledge base forum! This message will go away once you have registered.

Wiring it all up! What cables do I need?

Discussion in 'Accessories / Connections' started by woods, Jun 4, 2003.

  1. woods

    woods Guest

    It has been a while since I posted to this particular forum. I was here quite regularly last fall when I was beginning the purchase phase.

    Most of my gear purchasing is complete. But I have yet to complete my cable phase.

    My system is sort of a hibrid analog -digital - analog thing.

    Hopefully, if I can describe my set-up and how I would like to implement it ---- somebody can advise the types of cables I need.

    Ciao,
    Woods


    I'll start with tracking:

    I have 8 ch outboard pre and tracking to HD24. I will be using an OZ Audio HM6 headphone amp.

    I don't know whether or not I will be using any compression during tracking (but assume so).

    HD24: 24 1/4 inch ins and outs.


    Outboard Pres:

    Avalon 737: XLR mic in, XLR linE in, XLR line out.

    API 3124MB+: 4 XLR in/out, 4 inserts, 1/4" stereo out, 1/4 inch aux send/return

    Buzz MA2.2: XLR in/out, 1/4 inch out

    Demeter Bass Tube Pre: 2 x 1/4" outs, 1 x 1/4" send, 1 X 1/4" return, 1 x XLR (male).


    Compressors: Urei 1178 and two LA4 (XLR in/out), dbx 160x (1/4" in/out), Vari Mu (XLR in/out), Alesis 3630 (1/4" in/out).


    The headphone amp has a 1/4" stereo in as well as 4 individual inputs and corresponding level controls on each of 6 headphone channels so distinct mixes can be dialed in for each. All jacks are 1/4 inch. Headphone amp also has send /return and a PCM 60 will be used for cue mix reverb. The PCM60 is all 1/4" in/out.


    I'll describe mixing and (hobby mastering) later. But for now assume that all gear is in 3 SKB cases and tracking will be done in remote locations.

    Thanks,
    woods
     
  2. RobyG

    RobyG Guest

    When I wired my last equipment rack I sat down with all the manuals. I went to the manufacturers website and got front and rear panel graphics for all the gear. I assembled them in a graphics program so I could move them around to find a good placement.

    Using the computer, I then wrote down the in and out's for each piece of gear, including the patch bay. Also noted if they were +4 or -10.

    Once that is done you have a good chart to make an inventory. You can calculate how many connectors you need, and how many feet of cable, leaving room for expansion and moving gear around.

    For my fixed installation stuff, which was pretty much everything in the back of the rack, and for console, I went with Mogami cable. There are a ton of articles if you search at google.com on what cable to use. I arbitrarily chose Mogami because I was convinced from what I read. I don't have the number off hand, but it is a very rigid cable for permanent installations and is incredibly good with hum rejection. Wonderful stuff.

    I picked Neutrik for all my connectors. I'm not an 'electronics' kind of guy, so it probably took me a week to do the research. I then located a good bulk company (Have, Inc. at http://www.haveinc.com) who gave me an INCREDIBLE deal the time. Seriously, I got those connectors on sale and they were a quarter of any of the electronic supply stores.

    Bottom line, if you do the research and know what you need, you can get a bang up deal. Not only that you get well assembled cables that you can take pride in building yourself, and they are all built to custom length!

    Hopefully that helps some...
     
  3. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I just re-wired my entire studio with Mogami/Neutrik.

    Try here:

    http://www.redco.com./
     
  4. woods

    woods Guest

    How would you route cables to the HM6 and the other gear during the tracking phase? I need to know the type of cable and how many, (ie. 1/4 to 1/4 TRS or what ever), and from what device to what device.

    Scenario - Tracking at a remote location:

    1st SKB Rack: Avalon 737, API 3124MB+, Buzz MA2.2, and Demeter Bass preamp.

    2nd SKB Rack: UREI 1178, LA4, DBX 160x, Manley Vari Mu.

    3rd SKB rack: Alesis HD24, PCM 60, OZ Audio HM6.


    I won't be making my own cables. A sound company has a big surplus and is offering a very good price for everything I need.


    Ciao,
    Woods
     
  5. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

    Woods,
    The headphone amp is fed from a mixer which you don't specify here. IMO the HM6 is not the best choice for a remote rig. I think the best phone amp around is the Rane HP6. The OZ will be difficult to mount/use and has a lot of extra features you don't need. This unit is intended as a "more me" phone station, for use in a live room with the musicians, so that they can control their own phone mixes. Multiple units are often employed in these scenarios. You need a 24 channel mixer to accommodate the HD24 recorder. The HM6 needs a stereo feed and four independent signals. This is very convoluted and will only cause confusion and increased complexity in your remote rig. Almost any mixer should have plenty of aux sends to accomodate multiple phone mixes and some basic effects during tracking. So you see the OZ is really overkill in this application.

    6 independent musician controlled mixes at once.
    * For studio & live applications
    * Main L / R input plus 4 injection channels
    * Effects loop with 6 individual stereo returns
    * Built-in power supply
    * Robust ( l60mW ) output can drive any headphone to high SPLs
    * Long-life sealed rotary controls
    * Optional rackmount kit available (E-6)

    My advice is to find a good studio tech in your area and have them custom fab some interconnect for you including some tt/ bantam patch bays. This will be a considerable expense but in the long run will be worth it. There is nothing worse than being in the middle of a remote recording and having your interconnect going south on you. Have them fab up or order the right stuff for you. You will want some multipin connectors/snakes so that you can disconnect the racks from each other for transport. I can think of no other way to do this.

    I also hope that you have shock mounted those UREI units. I mentioned this to you when you first started. If you haven't, you can count on them to stop working correctly very quickly. These units are not made to be bounced around in remote racks. This is why they are almost always relegated to studio use. UREIS are very delicate and not road-able. I know you don't want to hear it but it's true. These units should be kept in individual shock mount racks if they are to be transported constantly. I still wince at the thought! Kurt
     
  6. woods

    woods Guest

    I have a Samson PL 1602 mixer.
    16-channel, 2-bus line mixer in two rack spaces
    Level and balance controls on each channel
    2-band EQ on all channels
    2 Aux sends per channel
    2 balanced main left/right outputs
    6 channel inserts and 2 main bus inserts for easy expandability.

    The beauty of this little thing is the 6 inserts. This will allow me to come out of 4 of the inserts and go into the Oz HM6's 4 direct inject channels - which allows "more me" in the cue mix during tracking.

    So, I will be tracking probably between 4 to 8 tracks live (with the intention of keeping whatever bed tracks reasonably possible).

    So I will need up to eight 1/4 inch cables between the HD24 and the Samson mixer.

    Then I will need six 1/4 inch cables between the Samson and the Oz Audio HM6 (2 for stereo in and 4 for direct inject signals).

    What do you think I should use in this situation - balanced (TRS) or unbalanced (TS)? Should I use Tip Ring Sleeve cables for these applications or just Tip Ring?

    The lengths are not going to be very long so I'm not thinking so much about that as I am wondering about noise rejection over short distances.

    Also, I will need a couple of power conditioners for the racks. What are the main features to consider in conditioners. How effective are these devices in suppressing hum?

    Ciao,
    Woods
     
  7. woods

    woods Guest

    Somebody suggested I take a look at the following site:

    http://www.rane.com/library.html

    I looked at the RANE site but I am not a technical person and quite frankly all of this balanced, unbalanced, TRS/TS, transformer balanced, floating whatever crap is beginning to become a little too confusing for me.

    Perhaps somebody could just list me the type of cables I need to run from my outboard pres to the Alesis HD24.

    I need them as hum-free as possible so I think they need to be balanced but I don't follow the specifics of the different kinds of balanced stuff that supposedly can differ from one piece of hi end gear to another according to the RANE info.

    My Outboard Pres include:

    Avalon 737: XLR mic in, XLR line in, XLR line out.

    API 3124MB+: 4 XLR in/out, 4 inserts, 1/4" stereo out, 1/4 inch aux send/return

    Buzz MA2.2: XLR in/out, 1/4 inch out

    Demeter Bass Tube Pre: 2 x 1/4" outs, 1 x 1/4" send, 1 X 1/4" return, 1 x XLR (male).

    Thanks,
    Woods
     
  8. woods

    woods Guest

    Somebody suggested I take a look at the following site:

    http://www.rane.com/library.html

    I looked at the RANE site but I am not a technical person and quite frankly all of this balanced, unbalanced, TRS/TS, transformer balanced, floating whatever crap is beginning to become a little too confusing for me.

    Perhaps somebody could just list me the type of cables I need to run from my outboard pres to the Alesis HD24.

    I need them as hum-free as possible so I think they need to be balanced but I don't follow the specifics of the different kinds of balanced stuff that supposedly can differ from one piece of hi end gear to another according to the RANE info.

    My Outboard Pres include:

    Avalon 737: XLR mic in, XLR line in, XLR line out.

    API 3124MB+: 4 XLR in/out, 4 inserts, 1/4" stereo out, 1/4 inch aux send/return

    Buzz MA2.2: XLR in/out, 1/4 inch out

    Demeter Bass Tube Pre: 2 x 1/4" outs, 1 x 1/4" send, 1 X 1/4" return, 1 x XLR (male).

    Thanks,
    Woods
     
  9. Kurt Foster

    Kurt Foster Distinguished Member

     
  10. woods

    woods Guest

    Here is the order for cables I made today:

    Here is my tracking set-up. All balanced system. Cables don't have to be over six feet. Everything in side by side racks.


    Outboard preamps into Alesis HD24....................10 each -- XLR to 1/4" TRS

    For compressors: insert cables............................ 6 each -- XLR (f) and XLR (m) to 1/4" TRS
    also................................................................. 6 each -- XLR (f) to XLR (m)

    also XLR ends (3 male and 3 female) that will clip on or wire-up to the back of the Urei 1178 and DBX 160X.


    Monitoring: Alesis HD24 to rack line mixer ..........10 each -- 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS

    Cue Mix: Line mixer to HM6 headphone mixer .... 6 each -- 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS
    Reverb send/return.......................................... 3 each -- 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS
    ________
    41 cables total
     

Share This Page