Thread: Hey guys new here! I need a brutally honest yet constructive mixing critique

Good stuff, remember the following is just my opinion and that will vary with every different person who listens.
Breathless, I like it, only thing I would change would be less reverb on the classical guitar.
Lotus Eater, great song, drums again, have a little too much reverb on them for me and the reverb that is used doesn't sound convincing (drums are always the hardest). Sounds like just one room mic used, instead of individual drum mic'ing
So overall, your not doing too badly, just keep on learning and working on the mixes.Drums are the backbone, so if that isn't right, anything put on top of them will suffer.
Todd
youtube.com/toddchambeau

First off, as a disclaimer, I need to say that this stuff really isn't my "thang"... I've never really been into Glass or any of the other "esoteric" artists BUT... I still respect the musicianship involved.

To my ears, many of your tracks sound "distant", as if mic'd from a great distance? Did you use just one room mic? Or was this room space something that you intentionally added using processing?

I'm not hearing the definition that these instruments you used can offer.

Also, my suspicion is that mixing through those Fender PA cabinets you listed probably isn't helping, in that those, along with many other PA cabs, are designed for hyped-up frequencies in your bottom - and sometimes top end.

Next time around you may want to look into a pair of decent nearfields in which to reference.

Again, take my opinion with a grain of salt, because the style isn't my bag. Perhaps this sounds exactly the way you wanted it to sound, perhaps this was precisely what you heard in your head, and if that's the case, then you've succeeded.

-d.

@tchambeau

Thanks for the tips! In hindsight I can see that turning down the reverb on the guitar in Breathless would have added a layer of warmth that it could use more of. I think while I was doing it I sided with more reverb because I wanted it to sound slightly other worldly. Now that I've read more about recording possibilities I think a good compromise between the 2 would be to utilize buses and to just automate the sends as I see fit. Higher on the send connected to a bus with more reverb when I want that effect. And then when I don't want that effect I'll turn it down on the send connected to the reverb bus and I'll turn it up on a bus that's free of plug-ins/effects. Does that sound like the correct course of action to you? And yes you caught me, the drums were recording with only one mic & I definitely don't plan on making that mistake again.. Do you have any suggestions for recording drums? Any procedures while recording? Can I do it effectively with a 2 channel audio interface or should I upgrade? If I were to purchase drum mics what would be a quality set, that's not too budget busting? Thanks for your help! And for listening to my tunes

Yes, a reverb send could be used. I personally like putting individual reverb plugins on separate tracks, so I can tweak them accordingly (with maybe one reverb send say for all of the drums) However, you need processing power for that, if thats an issue. Drums were my big hurdle. I don't know of any cheap way to get around getting a good drum sound. I tried the 3 mic technique, etc, but end up with the old SM57 on the snare, Sennheiser 401's on the toms, AKG? on the bass drum, 2 overhead AKG C1000's. If you check out my Youtube.com/toddchambeau, even with this setup (4 videos on there, check out Turkey Neck from last year, to Gotta Jack up your shrubs, last week) and you can see I am finally improving the sound. Just seperation, light compression and a little EQ. If you only have funds for a 2 channel interface, use what you got and spend the many hours it will take to try out everything. Then, as you work your way up the equipment ladder, you'll gain knowledge and skill as you go, making it easier. Good luck

@Donnyair

Hey thank you for taking the time to reply! I do think you have a point about definition for sure. There are instances where I do like that the tracks sound distant, but there are just as many if not more instances where I think they could use that definition youre talking about. Some of the parts were mic'd right up close and some were just direct inputs so it's definitely from after the fact processing that I'm getting that distant sound. I think most of that can be attributed to a desire to get everything in the mix a smoothness, but also my lack of experience in eq. I've tried searching for a standard frequency range to put my instruments in while i'm mixing, but I'm still not totally sure. I figure violins and vocals are high, guitar is about mid, and bass/drums are low, but this doesn't always work. I mainly mixed through the head phones too, and used not only the PA cabs, but my IMAC speakers as well. I'm really thinking about investing in nicer monitors though..Do you have any suggestions for a quality pair? also what frequency range do you think is appropriate for each instrument?

There is quite a bit of phasing. If you get that tightened up, things will really get better for you. Make sure you aren't out of phase with mic's. I'm with Donny on this, not my thing either but I like your sound. I love how you all sound together. I think you have a good thing going here and are on the verge of really connecting with an identity. I could do a lot with you guys so what that means, is , keep working at this! Despite not my bag, I am imagining how great you will sound when the mix tightens up.

Originally Posted by luminousegg

@Donnyair

Hey thank you for taking the time to reply! I do think you have a point about definition for sure. There are instances where I do like that the tracks sound distant, but there are just as many if not more instances where I think they could use that definition youre talking about. Some of the parts were mic'd right up close and some were just direct inputs so it's definitely from after the fact processing that I'm getting that distant sound. I think most of that can be attributed to a desire to get everything in the mix a smoothness, but also my lack of experience in eq. I've tried searching for a standard frequency range to put my instruments in while i'm mixing, but I'm still not totally sure. I figure violins and vocals are high, guitar is about mid, and bass/drums are low, but this doesn't always work. I mainly mixed through the head phones too, and used not only the PA cabs, but my IMAC speakers as well. I'm really thinking about investing in nicer monitors though..Do you have any suggestions for a quality pair? also what frequency range do you think is appropriate for each instrument?

Well, it does help to know those primary frequency ranges that certain instruments "live" in, and it's certainly a good place to start - for example, adding 80 hz to a flute track isn't gonna do anything for the flute and will just introduce low end artifacts into your mix that you don't want.... You won't do anything to help the flute but you might end up hearing HVAC noise, or that semi truck that drove by during the recording.. LOL

So yeah, it's good to know those primary ranges, but you don't want to lock yourself down to too narrow of a range either, because there are frequency nuances and harmonics involved throughout the bandwidths that you may want.

For example... while the primary frequencies - the warmth, body and "oomph" for a kick drum might live down in the lower regions, the "click" of the beater hitting the head, the presence, lives up in the much higher ranges, past 1k.

Here's what you may want to do, and engineers do this all the time, and that is to "calibrate" your hearing before mixing (and tracking too). Find some musical selections that you dig, or that are similar sonically to what you do. Play those selections and get your ears accustomed to the tones you are hearing.

Now... having a decent pair of reference monitors to do this with is important... because you want to know that what you are hearing is truly what you are hearing, and I'm not sure that's ever gonna happen for you using PA or PC speakers... but... what is more important is the sound of the room itself.

If your room is lying to you - for example, telling your ears that you have sufficient low end when you really don't, then your mixes will come off sounding low end shy or undefined, when played back on other systems.

Put it this way, Egg... personally, I'd rather mix in a great sounding room with a pair of "okay" monitors, than mix in a poor sounding room with the best monitors money could buy.

As to recording suggestions, well, I hesitate to give you much advice on your tracks because honestly, I'm not a fan of the genre.

Your style is esoteric and ethereal, and that "distance" that bothered me might be precisely what you were looking for.

Wearing my engineer's hat, I'd tell you to use good microphones, and capture the way the instrument was meant to sound. If you have a nice, natural sounding track of an acoustic instrument, like a violin, cello, flute, etc., you can always sculpt and manipulate that original sound to your heart's content after the fact.... but it's very hard, and in fact damned near impossible, to go the other way and attempt to get a natural sound....if you didn't capture it to begin with.

Now I need to be clear here.... while I don't necessarily dig the style you are working in, that doesn't mean that I don't respect the art and the musicianship involved. You just need to find "your" sound, and to that, there is no "right" or "wrong". There just is. Trust your intuition, and stick with your artistic path and vision.

It's not for me - or anyone else - to say what that vision is... just make sure that what you are hearing is truly what you are hearing, is all I'm sayin'. ;)

IMHO of course.

-d.

I found your compositions both intriguing and quiet eclectic. Overall rather interesting to listen to. A pleasant vocals sound. I basically like the other instrumentation. But I really could not get my head around those Tinkertoy sounding drums? That's where ya really dropped the ball on a lot of these numbers. Some of the sound is not just a distant, it's in the bottom of a trash can. Now I do know some engineers that have put microphones in the bottom of trash cans to get a sound. Perhaps they got what they were looking for in the trash can? I know I have. It was equipment that NBC-TV was throwing out. I kept a lot of it then sold the rest off for about $8000. So if I tell you this sounds like trash? It could be worth $8000?

So I really missed a good sounding drum track in all of your selections. They were just Tinkertoy's being beaten upon. Nothing exciting there. But it sounds like a good drum track was played and recorded? Now you just have to include it in your selections. It's the one thing you left out in the cold. And it's too cold out there. So it really didn't move me any.

What the other contributing posters indicated, I really didn't feel either way about. I thought everything else sounded good. It's only the drum set that prevented it all from coming together well. The drums need copious amounts of EQ, compression, limiting and above all, gating. None of that was evident. Whatever EQ you used certainly wasn't the right EQ you used. It did nothing for the drums whatsoever. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons why they sound bad? You just haven't yet dialed them in right. And once you do... these will release bring to life. They will present a much better experience for all. And that's really the only ingredient I feel needs to be changed.

Surely you have listened to other well known pop recordings on your monitoring system? And I'm sure you can tell quite quickly, where you're drums aren't. It's such an important ingredient for pop music. You're treating you're drums like that of a unwanted child. And they deserve better treatment than that LOL. I mean just because you beat them into submission does not mean they are going to perform admirably on the recording for you. Which they haven't. And it's not any problem with the drums set itself. They're not tuned right. They are not played with aggressive consistency. It sounds like somebody playing drums that doesn't know how to play drums. And I would imagine your drummer is better than that? And so you are cheating him out of his due respect for what he does for your band. Fix that and I think you have it made.

So this is only your first mix? Good. Then there should be no problem improving it.
Mx. Remy Ann David