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I just connected a new apogee 800 out (toslink) trhu optical motu in but in logic i can record every track with a very low input, do you know how to fix it? Thanks.

Comments

Boswell Sun, 03/28/2021 - 03:50

Assuming this is the Apogee Rosetta 800, you should try to break the problem down to isolate what is causing the trouble. The Rosetta 800 is quite a complex unit, and can be configured through use of internal jumpers as well as multi-use push buttons on the front panel

The Rosetta 800 is an A-D (and D-A) converter box that needs to be driven with (and gives out) balanced line-level signals. What type of pre-amplifiers are you using to feed the 800 and have you got Tascam-compatible interconnection cabling?

aliberesco Sun, 03/28/2021 - 04:56

Boswell, post: 468354, member: 29034 wrote:
Assuming this is the Apogee Rosetta 800, you should try to break the problem down to isolate what is causing the trouble. The Rosetta 800 is quite a complex unit, and can be configured through use of internal jumpers as well as multi-use push buttons on the front panel

The Rosetta 800 is an A-D (and D-A) converter box that needs to be driven with (and gives out) balanced line-level signals. What type of pre-amplifiers are you using to feed the 800 and have you got Tascam-compatible interconnection cabling?

Hi, thanks for your help. I have a XLR to DB25 Snake cable, 8 channels of guitar, bass, mics, connected to apogee input, then I have it connected through a toslink cable to the motu 828 mk3 input, As the motu didn’t recognize then apogee I had to aggregate device on the Audio midi setup application, I configured the 8 channels that on the audio menu are from 17 to 24. Then I add every channel on logic, and it works, but the signal input of each is very weak, every instrument marks some level, but almost no sound at all, my monitors hardly sound so I have to record and normalize every track after that to get some level. Is there something wrong on my setup?

Boswell Sun, 03/28/2021 - 06:37

That's what I suspected. The Rosetta 800 needs to be fed with signals that have been through a pre-amplifier. This would bring their amplitudes up to the level that the Rosetta needs. Exactly what figure that is for your 800 depends on the settings of jumpers inside the box and the push-button settings on the front panel.

You were probably expecting that the Rosetta 800 would take microphone signals, but unfortunately that is not the case, as it is an analogue-digital and digital-analogue converter.

If you make a list of the make and model of your microphones, we could make some suggestions about the pre-amplifiers you could consider for this job. How many sound sources do you record at any one time?

aliberesco Sun, 03/28/2021 - 06:45

Boswell, post: 468361, member: 29034 wrote:
That's what I suspected. The Rosetta 800 needs to be fed with signals that have been through a pre-amplifier. This would bring their amplitudes up to the level that the Rosetta needs. Exactly what figure that is for your 800 depends on the settings of jumpers inside the box and the push-button settings on the front panel.

You were probably expecting that the Rosetta 800 would take microphone signals, but unfortunately that is not the case, as it is an analogue-digital and digital-analogue converter.

If you make a list of the make and model of your microphones, we could make some suggestions about the pre-amplifiers you could consider for this job. How many sound sources do you record at any one time?

Yes, i expected that because i was told that if i bought the rosetta i could record my drum kit with voice, bass and guitar digitally from the snake. If that's not true then it's been a waste of money, because now i have to buy more equipment. I have a shure drum kit, a sm58 for voice and my guitars

paulears Sun, 03/28/2021 - 07:26

Can I just check? You do know this device is a line level +4dB unit? It doesn't have preamps in the usual sense at all, and is just an interface from A to D and back. The max input level is +6dB, so plugging in anything other than high level source devices won't produce much at all. I doubt a dynamic mic would even tickle the meters? The DB25 to XLR cables are pretty standard as they go, and very expensive - and I use them on some audio devices - but they don't cater for mics and guitars?

EDIT - sorry that post was late, it didn't go for some reason.

The apogee website makes no mention of anything that would give the impression it's for mics - some of their other products do - like the element 88. I don't know how you missed it. Do you have any cooling off period where you can return it? Other than that, then you could buy an older analogue classic mixer and use this to get mics and guitars up to pro line level?

paulears Sun, 03/28/2021 - 09:47

If you only need a few channels - then if we assume you have no money, you could buy a cheapish mixer - this kind of thing.

You'd need to chop off your expensive xlr=db25 fanout and replace it with 3 circuit jacks that would let you 'sniff' the mixer channels from the inserts, but it would work. However - maybe it would be better to sell the apogee - there is one going for nearly 600UKP on our ebay at the moment - and buy something different. In all fairness - you could get something that can do many roles for that kind of money. Even maybe a Behringher X32 rack - and you'd have all sorts of possibilities and pretty decent preamps - and lots of them.

aliberesco Sun, 03/28/2021 - 10:12

paulears, post: 468365, member: 47782 wrote:
If you only need a few channels - then if we assume you have no money, you could buy a cheapish mixer - this kind of thing.

You'd need to chop off your expensive xlr=db25 fanout and replace it with 3 circuit jacks that would let you 'sniff' the mixer channels from the inserts, but it would work. However - maybe it would be better to sell the apogee - there is one going for nearly 600UKP on our ebay at the moment - and buy something different. In all fairness - you could get something that can do many roles for that kind of money. Even maybe a Behringher X32 rack - and you'd have all sorts of possibilities and pretty decent preamps - and lots of them.

I nedd at least 8 channels, i own a motu 828 mk3 and i wanted digital, so they told me i needed the apogee, but iuf it doesnt work, what is recommended for thaht work, digital input and 8 channels, maybe there's one thing and i can sell both the apogee and the motu

Boswell Sun, 03/28/2021 - 10:27

I think you would do better by selling the Rosetta 800 - you could probably get the best part of USD800 for it. For that sort of money, there would be many 8-channel pre-amp/converters available. However, you would have to spend a little more to get a unit that would give you similar conversion quality as the Rosetta, but the Audient ASP880 would do that.

The MOTU828 is worth keeping as that gives you the computer interface, MIDI I/O and a further 8 ADC inputs.

paulears Sun, 03/28/2021 - 10:53

I was a Tascam user, then switched top Presonus - and I think that if my current firewire one died, I'd buy a Studio 1824C - not too sure about the USB-C, but it would be this or maybe a Scarlett 18i20 I think at the moment - I wouldn't use the higher sample rates, that's something I'm uninterested in - and the preamps usually get the transparent tag - and I'm not again interested in preamps that you can 'hear'. I appreciate some want this kind of thing - but not me.
 

kmetal Sun, 03/28/2021 - 15:51

At Normandy we had a Rosetta 800 connected to an 828mk3 via adat just like the OP. The difference in quality is not particularly subtle. Id personally keep the 800 because its a world class unit from not too long ago. It since it does ad an da you will have very high quality inputs and outputs to your speakers.

The focusrite octo pre (non dynamic) is a good bang for the buck unit. It gives you 8ch of mic pres and adat out. Its probably not as good as the audient, but is a good performer per dollar. I have not used its adat outs (conversion) but routinely used the pres.

For an all in one motu makes an interface with 8ch of pres, and the focusrite scarlett and clarrett models have 8ch pre units too. None of the onboard pres will be as good as the audient. They will be similar to an octo pre.

A fair compromise of quality vs price would be the antelope discrete 8. I haven't used the unit but based on specs and reputation i would suspect it would hover somewhere around the audient and Rosetta middle ground.

aliberesco Sun, 03/28/2021 - 17:16

kmetal, post: 468369, member: 37533 wrote:
At Normandy we had a Rosetta 800 connected to an 828mk3 via adat just like the OP. The difference in quality is not particularly subtle. Id personally keep the 800 because its a world class unit from not too long ago. It since it does ad an da you will have very high quality inputs and outputs to your speakers.

The focusrite octo pre (non dynamic) is a good bang for the buck unit. It gives you 8ch of mic pres and adat out. Its probably not as good as the audient, but is a good performer per dollar. I have not used its adat outs (conversion) but routinely used the pres.

For an all in one motu makes an interface with 8ch of pres, and the focusrite scarlett and clarrett models have 8ch pre units too. None of the onboard pres will be as good as the audient. They will be similar to an octo pre.

A fair compromise of quality vs price would be the antelope discrete 8. I haven't used the unit but based on specs and reputation i would suspect it would hover somewhere around the audient and Rosetta middle ground.

So, you recommend i keep it and? Get a focusrite and connect the 8 channels out to the aògee 8 channels in?

Kurt Foster Sun, 03/28/2021 - 18:07

aliberesco, post: 468370, member: 52558 wrote:
So, you recommend i keep it and? Get a focusrite and connect the 8 channels out to the aògee 8 channels in?

you have painted your self into an enviable position. i don't think i would be wrong to say almost anyone would be happy to own the Rosetta. a lot of us actually prefer having line inputs rather than something that forces us to use built in sub par mic pres. since you already have the Apogee, the best move would be to invest in a few mic pres or better yet, channel strips.

kmetal Sun, 03/28/2021 - 18:12

aliberesco, post: 468370, member: 52558 wrote:
So, you recommend i keep it and? Get a focusrite and connect the 8 channels out to the aògee 8 channels in?

That's what id do personally, then upgrade to better pres as time moves on, one or two channels at a time.

Boz's suggestion is perfectly logical.

I would just personally would prefer the top notch ad-da conversion over better pre amps to start with in this case.

Its difficult to say whats best for you, so i can only say what i prefer.

aliberesco Mon, 03/29/2021 - 06:39

kmetal, post: 468372, member: 37533 wrote:
That's what id do personally, then upgrade to better pres as time moves on, one or two channels at a time.

Boz's suggestion is perfectly logical.

I would just personally would prefer the top notch ad-da conversion over better pre amps to start with in this case.

Its difficult to say whats best for you, so i can only say what i prefer.

I dont understand, i need preamps for apogee, so, you recommend to get the focusrite to use it as a pre 8 ch and connect it to the rosetta via toslink or the snake? Please consider i'm a newbie so i must go step by step, nothing is implicit. I own a rosetta connected to the motu and to the computer. I have a 8 ch snake but no preamp, so you recommend a focusrite to preamp my inputs, right? I have no money but i have gear so i can trade it for the focusrite or something like that, but before i must know if it'll be the right gear, because i need to record right away and i cant be trying several gear that wont fit my needs and ive been misguided before. Thanks

aliberesco Mon, 03/29/2021 - 06:46

Kurt Foster, post: 468371, member: 7836 wrote:
you have painted your self into an enviable position. i don't think i would be wrong to say almost anyone would be happy to own the Rosetta. a lot of us actually prefer having line inputs rather than something that forces us to use built in sub par mic pres. since you already have the Apogee, the best move would be to invest in a few mic pres or better yet, channel strips.

Ok, like what, i mean, i don't know so i want to learn what would be the best choice to make my recording process available asap. Thank

Boswell Mon, 03/29/2021 - 08:11

Well, you have to work within your constraints, both financial and time. If you absolutely have to avoid spending any more money, then it's clear you have to sell something in order to fund what you need at least to get you on the path towards where you want to be. The two audio items you possess that have told us about are the MOTU 828 and the Apogee Rosetta 800.

At the moment, the MOTU is your interface to the computer. If you sold that, you would have to buy a piece of equipment that not only had pre-amps to act as the inputs to the Rosetta, but would need a computer interface section as well. That would turn out to look something like another MOTU, but with 8 pre-amps instead of 2, and access to the pre-amp outputs so you could use them to feed into the Rosetta. That's a very tall order to buy with what you would get for the MOTU. I don't know what the market for 20-year old audio gear is like in Mexico, but here in the UK you would maybe get the equivalent of USD200.

The Rosetta 800, on the other hand, has a far higher intrinsic value. As I mentioned earlier, putting that on Ebay US would probably attract considerable interest, and I would be surprised if you did not get at least USD800 for it. That's still not enough to buy pre-amps plus converters that had a similar sonic quality to the Rosetta, but it does mean you could buy something that would give you 8 more analogue channels. Even getting 6 more pre-amp only channels that you would feed into the rear-panel line inputs of the MOTU would give you a total of 8.

A better alternative would be a set of pre-amp/converters with ADAT output to feed into the digital ADAT input of the MOTU. In this way, the signals would not pass through any of the analogue or converter section of the MOTU, so the sonic quality of the external pre-amp/converter would not be degraded by lower-standard converters. My previous suggestion of an Audient ASP880 is a good fit for this. However, I looked at US prices for the ASP880, and was pained by how much more they sell for in N America than in the UK, even allowing for the exchange rate. In addition, I did not see any second-hand units less than about USD1000.

So there is no easy solution, I'm sorry to say. It's possible that others here on RO would have further ideas as to what to do.