What sort of music do you do? Regardless, you don't need to feel guilty about using loops.

Loops are nothing more than a sample that just happens to have a rhythm. If you are sampling them from existing material, there may be licensing issues, but if you are using them from a library or creating them yourself, then there's no problem at all.

I don't consider using them plagiarism. Maybe sometimes lazy or uncreative, but not plagiarism.

I don't think everyone uses them creatively. I don't use them a lot...mostly for breaks or something like that. I've rarely use them as the main beat for a song.

I've never had a loop library aside from what is included in the odd sample library here and there. As for some good libraries, check out BFD and DFH. They are the most popular these days. I did find a really nice multisampled kit that was free from someone's website. I don't remember where that was but do some web searching and you should be able to find it.

orbit wrote: i have a hard time, being a musician first, and an amatuer audio engineer (if thats the correct term) with using drum LOOPS.

isnt this a bit like plaguerism (sp?)?? of course less time consuming than taking individual samples and building your own loops (say via fruity loops) - aside from that advantage, can anyone maybe point out uses, or how frequently drum loops are used, or their philosophy behind this??

also if anyone can point me to finding some good natural drumkit/percussion sample packs i would be most appreciative!

Technically speaking, if they are LEGAL you have nothing to worry about.

That means:

1) you PAID for them

2) they were made LEGALLY (i.e. the performers signed a release for such use)

Artistically, it's another story but, loops have their place for sure.

Of course, it's much faster for a good drummer to play a song from start to finish that it is to build a CONVINCING drum track from individual loops. Even if they come as "SETS" (with fills, intros, etc...).

So many HIT records have loops in them!

I've had long chats with other producers/engineers about the habbit of using loops and samples. Some talk about loops like they are for toys for children, if one cannot write, produce and edit absolutely every aspect of the creation process then they are amatures. I think that the above is bunk. Loops and samples are tools just like a Juno 106 or MPC or whatever. If you are getting the results you want and you remain ethical about it, then who's the fool?

My biggest shortfall is probably rythm production. I know this and anyone who listens to my productions would know this too if I didn't resort to alternative ways of creating rythm. Does this mean that I don't produce as good as you? Well, If I go out and buy a BT Loop CD, release a solid track and make many people happy (not to mention make some money) and you sit there for hours puttering about trying to create a unique beat and never quite put out the production quality that I do (at least to the untrained ear of the general public), then are you still better?

I say this, use all the tools available to you. Don't limit yourself to what someone else thinks that you should do or use. If you like using rebirth or garage band, if you think that the metaflanger on everything sounds cool then use it. My only self imposed limitation is this, do whatever it takes to get you final product but try to create something organic with the tools you use. Sound like an oxymoron?! Well, if you like the Metaflanger (and too many people do!!) then keygate the channel that it's set on to the rythm of a funky beat (or loop!), set a delay as an insert after the gate and Metaflanger, or whatever, just be creative. Don't just rest on the abilities of the basic plugs or loops you and everyone are using. Edit the crap out of your loops till your wrists are tired, then you will in essence have something fresh and new anyway.

The biggest complaint I ussually have (and I'm sometimes guilty of it too) is when I can hear the effects or sounds used and I know exactly what they are the where they came from. I am most impressed when I hear a sound or effect and I'm not sure how the producer came up with it and that is exactly how I learn too.

Finally, let me say this (I'm ranting on here!!)
The next time you walk into someone elses studio that's full of impressive gear, software, mics and the like, ask yourself if that persons actually producing anything good enough to merit the gear, then go home, open up Fruityloops on your P3 and blow the big spender away!

Long live loops!

Regards!