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tube spring reverb

Member for

21 years
can anyone recommend a high quality tube spring reverb?

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Member for

15 years 11 months

aracu Sun, 10/15/2006 - 06:39
I love Reme's detailed history of spring and plate reverb. Perhaps
the original source of these inventions can be found in the ancient
instruments with built in reverberation devices in the form of
sympathetic string vibrations, such as the santur, sarangi and sitar.

Member for

15 years 5 months

BobRogers Tue, 09/19/2006 - 13:10
RemyRAD wrote: ....and so, I began my quest to find that reverb sound I had lost. ....

I could go on but I think I'm starting to decay???
Ms. Remy Ann David
So when does the steamy tell-all book about your affair with Phil Spector some out...,"and so I said, 'Phil, you can never turn turn that knob up enough..'"

Member for

16 years 7 months

moonbaby Tue, 09/19/2006 - 14:23
So THAT'S who's been turning Remy's knobs, eh? Well at least Sprectum knew his reverbs....spring, plate, and WALL...
But are you SURE that the Fender amps in the 60s used springs? They might've used shocks....And are Ernie Ball Super Slinkys the kind of springs those Fender amps had? I read somewhere that those old tube amps had BALLS...maybe they were his...

Member for

15 years

cusebassman Thu, 10/05/2006 - 08:20
Reverb tanks... well - the only one I've used is the Fender reissue, and it sounds great for guitar. So does the spring reverb in my Fender Blues DeVille... however, for anything else? I wouldn't be slapping spring reverb on a drumset or vocals, again, like others have said - unless you want that sound. For other purposes, digital reverbs suit me just fine.

Member for

21 years

Member Tue, 09/19/2006 - 15:50
interesting essay remy, you really do know a lot about the history of reverbs. the reason i made this sort of comparison is because over on the other topic we were talking about the watkins copicats and better tape echoes than the echoplex back in the day, which is nice but noisy in itself as well. and obviously they just have superior warmth in a sense.

what do you think about the subject of those tape echoes? the newer ones that is.

also what do you think about the newer demeter RV-1? which must be a transistor spring reverb, in shape of outboard gear?

so to sum up the for guitar those spring reverbs like the '63 or possibly like is built in some of the other fenders and marshall amps, are not bad and produce a unique sound? what about for bass? (i mean i KNOW they do sound good, ive used them before in the guitar amps, but nontheless im still asking)

for drums and vocals you are saying basically stick to plate reverb, or digital? given that you think something like this demeter RV-1 is somewhat comparible to the AKG BX20E that you mentioned. although it is only 1RU in width so, i don't know. also you didn't mention, is the AKG tube or transistor based?

speaking of that, do they still make the bx20e or are they somewhat easily attainable and what would be the price, just out of curiosity?

excuse me for thinking in the mindset of a conventional rock and roll act, i am simple minded for it, or am i

Member for

15 years

Scoobie Tue, 09/19/2006 - 15:55
If my father was alive today he could answer all the question you could ever ask about fender products, the old ones that is.

All the old fender reverb units that i know of where spring i think, i could be corrected . I use to watch my Dad take the spring out and stretch them or even cut some of the spring off to make them tighter for a different sound.

I have alot of old fender amps and guitars. I can check later and tell you for sure about the 63 reverb unit. I have one and it looks like a guitar head itself, not just a reverb unit. I will say that it would sucks as a effects unit, but for guitar it's that 60's sound.

I was 4 years old when my Dad bought that reverb unit. Telling my age!!

Peace........Scoobie

Member for

19 years 9 months

Davedog Tue, 09/19/2006 - 17:00
Fender used then and now, Accutronic Tank reverbs, or spring units. The older ones (pre CBS invasion) were driven by tubes. Half of one of the AX7's I think...correct me if I'm wrong about that part. Almost ALL of the guitar reverbs are springs. Those that arent have digital modeling in them or a little chip.

I have seen and adjusted a 12' Gotham plate reverb in my life. It has a steering wheel at one end to warp the plates into position. It sat in its own anechoic chamber and had large tube drivers on it. I'd bet theres less than 20 of these in use in the entire world at this time.

And as Scoobie said, the old guitar and amp tech's knew how to clean up and customize those springs. I've heard some of the resulting amps and the reverb sound in these 'tweeked' units is nothing like you can imagine for guitar.

Why would anyone use reverb on a bass? Maybe as an effect but the physics of this would cause so much grief to the mixer that the benefit of sounding cool would be negligible at best.

Member for

16 years 7 months

moonbaby Wed, 09/20/2006 - 06:27
Running bass guitar into a vintage Fender reverb amp (the "Vibrato" channel, not the "Normal" channel) can wreck the reverb tank. This is because that channel is always driving the reverb tank, even with the "Reverb" control is turned down all the way. The "Reverb" control is a "return" control, adjusting the level of the signal coming out of the tank.
Even though there is a highpass filter to minimize the bass notes going to the tank, the transients and potential LF tones that "hit" the springs will eventually tear them up. I just bought a 1970 Fender Dual Showman Reverb Amp from a bass player who did just that. Good thing the Accutronics tanks are still around!

Member for

16 years 7 months

pr0gr4m Sun, 09/17/2006 - 16:03
Well, it most definitely is a spring as that's the only thing that would be able to create a reverb in a guitar cabinet from that time.

I don't know of any outboard spring reverbs. I would guess that if they exist, they would be all but forgotten by now. Spring reverb sounds...well...springy and I don't think that they would stand the test of time.

Member for

16 years 7 months

moonbaby Mon, 09/18/2006 - 06:58
Back in the 60's, all reverb units in guitar and organ amps utilized spring tanks that were made by Hammond (now Accutronics). These are very limited in their performance. Studios, as a whole avoided the design, favoring large plate reverb systems, buried gasoline tanks, treated rooms and stairwells, etc.
There are still spring units (rack-mountable) on the market, made by Demeter. Jim Demeter is mainly known for wicked tube amps and studio processors. The reverb is a solid-state affair that rocks for guitars. Soldano made a tube spring reverb recently, too. Back in the 70s and 80s, AKG and MicMix made rack-mount and stand-alone spring units, and these are coveted by many "surf guitar" producers.

Member for

21 years

Member Mon, 09/18/2006 - 10:22
thanks for the info, what exactly are the plate reverb systems, i've used grated reverb, and halls, and this and that. is it an outboard piece? who makes the good ones if so, and do you know if that fender 63' utilizes springs, inferring that like you said all units in the sixties did, however i believe this is a reissue, so i'm not sure. but do you know of any tube reverbs that are better than the 63?

Member for

15 years 5 months

BobRogers Mon, 09/18/2006 - 16:03
I could provide a better answer if you provided more information about your situation (and that remark applies to a lot of the questions that you have asked recently on the board). The Fender Reverb tank's noise floor is not considered remarkable in the world of tube powered guitar effect units. Nor is it's bumpy frequence response or its harmonic distortion level. However, for a standard vocal recording they'd all be considered a joke. They are not "audiophile" standard in any way. Think of playing your CDs through you Marshall. So it depends on what you are looking for, and only you can tell us that.

Member for

21 years

Member Mon, 09/18/2006 - 16:16
im sure it is more noisy, for guitar no doubt most of the fender amps have spring tube reverb implemented, some other amps as well. so i would be using this for guitar, but yeah also for outboard stuff with other instrumentation, drums, bass, vocals. i checked out the demeter RV-1, its a nice spring unit. no tubes though, for an outboard tube reverb let alone springs, after a short search this '63 was all i could find. maybe you can find some more.

yeah well im not contesting the nature of it standing up to "hi fi audiophile" gear, as most stuff isnt technically considered audiophile in the recording studio.
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