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Edits to a concert recording

Member for

16 years 11 months
I've got something coming up where we will record a concert (string quartet) and then they want to do a session in the same venue immediately afterward to get alternate takes for any problem areas. Recording location is a church, but not one I have been in before so no knowledge of the details yet. (The recording is in early February, so I have time to check it out.)

I'm trying to think about the strategy for cutting in any needed re-takes, since they will be recorded without the audience present. I imagine this could change the acoustic a bit but, more importantly, I would have the main of the recording with the natural noises created by the audience and the re-takes without.

I'm thinking of trying to record some 'quiet audience' time that I could mix with the re-takes, if needed, to avoid the change in the background level. Probably a little closer-than-usual micing would be in order, too. Although my normal approach try to capture the acoustic event, this might be a case where that will make it difficult (or impossible) to combine content from what are really two different acoustic events.

Wondering if any of you have dealt with this before? Do those ideas make sense? Any other suggestions? Other than suggesting that the musicians don't make any mistakes...

Michael

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Member for

17 years 8 months

Cucco Mon, 12/18/2006 - 11:56
mdemeyer wrote: Jeremy,

Can you give the locations of the splices relative to the clip posted. I want to go back and listen with this knowledge, but can't really figure out the relationship of the times you posted to the offset in the 37-second clip...

Thanks!

Michael

Hey Micheal -

The times mentioned previously -
20:11
23:00
24:12
were actually in relationship to the 37 second clip. They're in "second:frame" format. Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

J.

Member for

20 years 9 months

FifthCircle Tue, 12/19/2006 - 10:23
Well, I'm coming in a bit late...

I'll take the position that if your rehearsal is recorded just like the concert, you should have no problem doing edits. Obviously you need to factor in audience noise and a possibility for ambience change, but all of these are pretty easily addressed in the editing process.

I edit probably a dozen or more performances per year- most for radio broadcasts, but also some for CD release. If you could hear the edits, I wouldn't have a job.

Some hints for editing- long crossfades are often your friend. A gradual change in sound is usually not perceptable. Make sure your mic positioning is exactly the same in rehearsal and concert. For ambient changes, a touch of reverb on the drier signal will help equalize ambience. Don't be afraid of doing gain changes from clip to clip in editing. Performance and practice levels are rarely exactly the same. Trimming of attacks that aren't together can save having to edit in from the rehearsal.

Good luck... If you follow a careful protocol, you shouldn't have any problems.

--Ben

Member for

7 years 8 months

John Willett Thu, 03/09/2017 - 05:47
mdemeyer, post: 212526, member: 21470 wrote: I've got something coming up where we will record a concert (string quartet) and then they want to do a session in the same venue immediately afterward to get alternate takes for any problem areas. Recording location is a church, but not one I have been in before so no knowledge of the details yet. (The recording is in early February, so I have time to check it out.)

I'm trying to think about the strategy for cutting in any needed re-takes, since they will be recorded without the audience present. I imagine this could change the acoustic a bit but, more importantly, I would have the main of the recording with the natural noises created by the audience and the re-takes without.

I'm thinking of trying to record some 'quiet audience' time that I could mix with the re-takes, if needed, to avoid the change in the background level. Probably a little closer-than-usual micing would be in order, too. Although my normal approach try to capture the acoustic event, this might be a case where that will make it difficult (or impossible) to combine content from what are really two different acoustic events.

Wondering if any of you have dealt with this before? Do those ideas make sense? Any other suggestions? Other than suggesting that the musicians don't make any mistakes... :wink:

Michael

I know this is a very old thread (sorry).

I often record a pianist here in teh UK.

He will normally want me to record the practice session before the concert so he can patch any mistakes in the concert.

Modern seating often has the same acoustic signature whether a person is sitting in it or not - so the sound is about the same whether the hall is full, empty, or partially full.

Once (many years ago) we did this - then, before the concert, the organisers instructed me to move the microphones (which I did). Careful re-placement and it all worked out fine. There was one point where he made a mistake and there was no cover recording of that bit. However, I had recorded the same piece a couple of weeks earlier - same piano, same microphones, same pianist; but a totally different venue. I patched from the other venue and you cannot tell where the edit is as you cannot hear the edit at all. Even the pianist and I cannot tell where the edit is.

More recently I recorded a piano and cello concert - I recorded a rehearsal three days before the concert; I also recorded the practice in the afternoon before the concert; then the concert itself. The final master was made up from the concert with various patches.

If you want to listen to see if you can spot the edits - it's [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.sonovivo…"]HERE[/]="http://www.sonovivo…"]HERE[/]

Microphones were an ORTF pair of Gefell M300 plus a 60cm spaced pair of Gefell M221 at -12dB. DAW was Sequoia.
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