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State of Major Label recording

Member for

21 years 3 months
Hey guys, been snooping around the forums for a little while and have an important question for you.

I am considering going to Berklee college of music in a year or so and I am torn between double majoring in Performance and Music Production and Engineering, or Performance and Music Buisness and Management. I Would MUCH rather double in Performance and Music production because I find the Music Production aspect of music more interesting then the business side. My question to you is: Would it be a wise decision to depend upon getting a degree in music prod. and engineering from Berklee and be able to get a job at a recording studio once out of school? Is that a reliable job source? I know that the state of the major label recording industry is poor because of the advent of technology which allows for people to do it at home and not even bother with going to a major label.

Would a job at a recording studio in LA, NYC, or Boston, MA be a good thing to fall back on if the 'Performance' side of things doesn't quite work out? I need something that is full proof so I don't wind up on the street.

- Nick


Member for

20 years 8 months

MadMax Tue, 02/06/2007 - 04:47

aquaboob3 is a twit and doesn't really warrant the acknowledgement of existance beyond the points I've made for his (et al) edification, other than to say that a troll is a troll.

The ignorance of youth is quite often forgivable as the favour of the aged, neglected... but a fukwit dweeb need only be recognized and dismissed as just noise in the background of life, such as the passing of wind by and old man on the street corner.

His ilk are the half implied continued ruination of this industry. They don't even know enough to comprehend that the end is clearly in sight and yet they contiune to roll unobstructed and oblivious toward the point of no return, on the slippery slope of erradication of individual and societal rights.

In this case, the folly of youth is deserving of so much more than a simple swat on the bottom. Yea my brother, the need is of a good old fashioned ass whoopin to turn their eyes teary in the wake of the reality that the easily begotten "fun and fame" they so desperately seek, is on the verge of collapsing into oblivion.

What shall these children do when all that is theirs to see and own is pablum for the masses controlled for so many by so utterly few? They shall sit in their own wreched stench and whine, or they will likely say nothing at all. There shall be no cheese with their whine. The only whine shall likely be that they long of the good old days when they still had time to fix things and all they did was place their opposable thumbs up their collective anal sphincter's.

If they are as fortunate enough to grow a spine and out shall sprout the testicular fortutude to even breed another generation... maybe THEN will their offspring see and identify the ogre behind the facad. Maybe then will the curtain be pulled back to reveal the lost art of what music is and always has been.

And again, I would remind you that the troll neither sleeps nor feeds enough that it is satified to the the point that it becomes complacent enough to just go away. They continue be the constant irritation such as a festering pestule caused by constant attention paid to a splinter in the ass from setting on the bleachers of life... The end result is in the necessary call for assistance to remove said irritant from the gluteus maximus...

...but they are fun to torment and rant upon while they are here!

Member for

21 years 3 months

archived member Tue, 02/06/2007 - 07:59
granted, generally speaking today's music (by the general youth) is lame, but i don't know if that is necessarily a new thing. i thoroughly enjoy the classics and like many i too am frustrated with the industry. but do you honestly believe that true creativity and burning ingenuity in songwriting is going to come from some washed up old fool like yourself?

you know nothing about what i proceed to do with music. the fact that you act like you do makes you all the more pathetic.

cut the fuckin wise guy "i have twenty years of experience so i must be a professional" routine. i know that i'm not buying it.

or maybe its more like; "i have 900 posts so my rants are more acceptable than your logical reasoning or opinion"

who knows, you guys are good ole american boys drinking whiskey and rye.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Davedog Tue, 02/06/2007 - 08:22
Okay, aguamanic, throw it out. Show the masses here what you're doing with music. Everyone wants know. You've been asked several times about your direction, your gear, your experience, yet you have no answer. Most people on here will tell you upfront what they're working on, what they're using to get it done and what they want out of it. But you have not been so forthright. Nows your chance. You talk big stuff, deliver.

You want respect. Earn it. Right now your whole persona to the entire group here at R.O. screams out TROLL.....or perhaps EGOTISTICAL IDIOT.... Either way, its getting kinda weak for you. Your constant reference to what someone is drinking simply because they differ in opinion from you is weak. Your obvious level of knowledge is weak and you back it up with hearsay and nonfactual rhetoric.

Its time for you to come clean. Step up. Be a man. Show what you got. Post some examples in the forum. If you're so smart, prove it.

Otherwise, and I say this as a Moderator here at

You'll be gone. Its just that easy.

(Drinking cranberry juice)

Member for

16 years 1 month

hueseph Tue, 02/06/2007 - 08:58
Regarding Aqualand: it's the same crap as when he was here as liquidstudios. He's even gone back to referring to number of posts being irrelevant and blah blah.

Regarding "older" people being able to produce quality music: did anyone see the PBS airing of Peter Frampton a week or so ago? Or has anyone heard his latest album?

I was shocked. I stumbled upon a familiar tune while flipping channels and here it was Peter Frampton. I couldn't place the tune until the chorus. It was Soundgarden-Black Hole Sun. I couldn't believe my ears. Not only was this 50+ year old man playing Soundgarden, he was doing it justice.

I have to say as well that his chops have far from waned. If anything he's gotten better over the years.

That's just one example of a musician who not only has kept up his art but has grown over the years. I can think of others who had just gotten better with age. The late Stephane Grappelli was a monster fiddle player 'til he passed away. Jeff beck has grown with the times, adapting technology to his playing. Adrian Belew. Adrian Legg.

Then there's guys out there like Ben Lacy who are just from another planet. Joscho Stephan, Tommy Emanuel. That's just the guitarists (and one fiddle player).

So yeah, I think the mature players still have the monopoly on talent. That's not to say there aren't talented youngsters out there but they are fewer and further in between. Soloing is not "cool" in the rock world anymore. Shredding is just plain shunned. With hip hop, making your own beats from scratch is taboo. If it don't have a sample from a classic lp, it ain't no good(plagiarism).

Member for

20 years 8 months

MadMax Tue, 02/06/2007 - 09:44
Hmmmmm... lickquidstupios... that's where I recognized the dribble from... all the clearer now.

hueseph... while I heartily agree that many artist's talent seems to just get better with experience, I do actually look forward to working with some of these young cats... There's still some musicianship out there to be true. Just not in as high of a ratio as it seems like it used to be.

Between the arts taking such a hit in the education process and the fact that knowing your instrument isn't as high of a priority has definitely increased the signal to noise ratio. It's a real shame too. A true artist should be driven to get it as perfect, or at least right enough on a single take. If not a single take, then in respectable durations of a performance. It should, as I think most everyone here will agree, not be one or two notes at a time. That applies to everything from kick to vocals and everything in between. The slight imperfections that come with performances is the proof that it is genuine.

This thing we call music comes from the soul. It lives and breathes at the same pace and with the same depth as the creator. It is passion. Passion does not exist on a grid.

Member for

21 years 3 months

archived member Tue, 02/06/2007 - 10:56
nice insight man, ideosyncrasies create bustling character? who would've thought. i am not liquid studios..., hang it the fuck up dr. magoo, detective clouseau. your investigation on matters seems about as thorough as that of a character on a soap opera.

the number of classic rock acts still around, still being creative is almost nonexistant, i think the last fresh thing i heard in this scenario was tom petty - last dance with mary jane. audioslave is unique, maynard james keenan is in his 40's, i just saw motley crue earlier this year, they definently weren't bad. not as bad as aerosmith at least. i could hardly sit through an entire set of "cryin," and the other BS they play now. and even if you can find the very few that are still going strong, you can look back to some point in their career and see something god awful that they did. dave grohl still does it well, he has never played a single nirvana song after the death of the band, although the amount of money he could probably make off doing so would be surprising. maybe i shouldn't speak too soon, however i trust that grohl would never do it. i dont have that same trust in many of the classic rock acts that try to relentlsessly capitalize off touring. (often times with one or two original members mind you)

i don't know what to tell you about my experience, this topic isn't about me.

i guess true artists strive to get it "perfect," but i don't think that is the philosophy that true artists strive to attain. it is more that the true artist strives to be himself and put forth his creativity at all costs. the true artist realizes what amount of technical valour is necessary to convey the creativity. i don't think jimmy page specifically ever tried to get his takes perfect. lou reed of the velvet underground surely didn't. and no, i don't believe mr. jimi waiting down at the chelsea drug store did either.

not dylan, not the sex pistols, and surely not ziggy who played guitar

its people like zakk wylde, joe satriani, yngwie malmsteen that play guitar for 12-13 hours a day and force themselves to play perfectly mercilessly. and as much as i dig the styles of the parties involved, i wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to hail any of them as being the upmost of creative entities. or hey you have eric clapton, what a wonderful guitarist, one of the most clean and perfect i've ever heard, but does he write a single lick?

and for god sake's quit hatin on my username, you do realize yours is mad max right? are you five? do you own a purple motorcycle and ride around snapping a chain to the road beneath your feet? no wait, you toss cards at your enemies don't you.

if my name was max, i would shoot myself. that or drill my head out. 3.14878439493448493403403949349348343403737955845945858585458

^the only cool max that i can think of. oh wait there's max weinberg.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Davedog Tue, 02/06/2007 - 14:59
I can only assume that by your vehement declarations of what all these 'artists' had in mind and their apparent level of achievement and their desires, that you know them all personally. We should all pull up a chair and bask in the radiance of your extended knowledge and know that our days grow brighter with the blessings laid on us my your reverence.

Since you insist that your knowledge surpasses all who come here, then I declare this topic to be about you, Sir Aquaman.

Now that we have that little technicality out of the way, its time for you to let us all in on how you know so much much that isnt rumormill fodder, so much that isnt much that is factual....So much as to willingly backbite and denigrate any who seek to discuss with you the merits of your high and mighty declarations.

Its now. You have but a few hours left in these forums. Its time to put up or shut up.

Its your last warning.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Davedog Tue, 02/06/2007 - 15:21
Unless you are personally acquainted with someone to the point of knowing their habits, their schedules and their personal lives you cant say for certainty ANYTHING about them. What you read in magazines and fanzines isnt necessarily reality.

Since this isnt a fanzine site, I would ask you to assert ONLY your opinions AS opinions and not as factual representations.

Simply because you really dont know. Nor do I but I dont claim to.

So...aquacreep, what are you working on these days? What kind of mics do you own? What are you using as a front-end? What kind of music do you play? Do you make records? Can we hear one somewhere?

Ya see, stoopid....without you being forthright about simple stuff like this, nobody on this site is gonna want to play and discuss things in a decent sort of way. All you're gonna get is disrespect and as a moderator its my job to quell these occuances. Until you learn what this community is all about then you will continue to be reviled and shunned. The only folks who'll talk to you are those, who, like me, have heard all this kind of blahblahblah childish BS outta lameo halfassed knowitalls before.

So, Mr. Aqualung....whaddaya been working on? Have ya got a studio? Where do you do all yer work? Whats your primary instrument? Do you have any recordings to share with us? Did you think the Colts were going to be that dominate?

Put up or GET OUT.

Member for

14 years 10 months

TheFraz Tue, 02/06/2007 - 15:47
I am in school for the music industry... every thing from production and engendering to business and contracts. and pretty much any thing relevant in between.

As far as getting a job in a studio is concerned, you may as well not go to school. even with a degree you still need to apprentice in a studio. and let me tell you buddy, it's no walk in the park. you have to pay your dues, and pay them well while getting paid next to nothing. It can take years before you get a job as an assistant engineer.
Like it has been said many times over, studios are dying. The studios that are still around make the bulk of their money from advertisements.
and that source of revenue is far from stable for most studios.

It is not impossible to get an apprenticeship... but its going to take an out of the box approach if you don't know people in the bizz.

If you want to build your own studio, going to school will be invaluable. although you CAN learn allot from books, a good program is going to help you out a great deal. and give you an opportunity to learn on professional equipment. This helps out allot when it comes to making budget equipment sound allot better. since you have a solid understanding between good quality and poor quality.

But there is far more to the music industry then just recording bands. Audio post is a BOOMING market. there are so many forms of media out there today, and they all need content, and all that content needs sound. thats where post production comes in. I sure as hell can't summarize the role of post production into one post, but its defenitly a feesable, and profitable area of the music industry to get your self into. its what i plan on doing out side of school.

Don't let the bizzar state of the recording industry discourage you from doing what you love. thats all i really have to say.

Member for

16 years 9 months

pr0gr4m Tue, 02/06/2007 - 16:37
aqualand666 wrote: but i feel like its a relatively valid assumption.
LMAO :lol: If that ain't an absolute, I don't know what is.

Ok, I got sucked into that and now I'm sucking myself out of it.

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: ...Then DIGITAL revolution came along and people could, with their computers, make exact copies of their CD collection and as long as they had the CD on their computer they decided to let other people have copies so the P2P networking was established. Record companies lost millions of dollars in revenues because they were not selling as many CDs. People were illegally copying them and sharing them without paying the record companies or the artist. So record companies pulled back and started to reduce budgets for recordings and at the same time suggested that the bands they were signing get its own equipment and start doing their own recording thereby saving the record company LOTS more money. At the same time record companies started not signing new acts due to the lack of money for development and bands and artists started doing self promotion and became indie artists since it was the only way their music could be heard...

This is it! This is the paragraph that I've been looking for. I've tried explaining this to all sort of people without much success. This single paragraph, explains it better than I ever could. The whole post in fact is spot on. It should be posted on message boards all over the internet so that people can see, can understand, can learn. Alas, this is Earth and we are humans. Seeing, understanding and learning is a rare occurance.

Member for

21 years 3 months

archived member Tue, 02/06/2007 - 22:35
davedog i figured a logical being like yourself would be able to understand the concept of opinionated statements. thank you though for reiterating those points.

like i said i am in the prospecting of getting a studio general contracted, 600 sq ft. as to right now i don't have much of a place to record. my mic collection at the moment is slim, consisting of an akg c 414, rode nt5's, 3 sm 57's, sm 58, audix d6, shure ksm 27. right now i don't have much of a front end either, just a trident s20 and a 610 preamp. i play rock and roll music any old way you choose it. yes when my studio is designed and constructed acoustically you can hear my work. primary instrument is guitar. don't give a shit about the colts.

when the studio is built thats when i'm gonna stock it with equipment, from the all mighty consumer friendly GUITAR MART. why you ask? because they will take off all taxes and 20% off many items.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Davedog Tue, 02/06/2007 - 23:59
Thank you. I pride myself on logical thought even though I am , by nature, an artist , capable of emotional eptitude.

Now that wasnt so hard, was it? Now everyone can kind of try and get to know you, heaven knows what for.....I jest.............

Now opinions are fine. Very opinionated is the grist most of us on here tend toward. However.....being an ass about it and deriding your fellow posters with insults and incriminations will not be tolerated.

Feel free to have your prepared for others to object and occasionally set the record straight when obviously erroneous information is being bantered.........Dont be surprised or insulted if you act like a pompous ass and you get called for it.

Its kind of a little self-policing that goes on here.

You've already stepped on a lot of toes here and for no good reason other than you're kind of a prickish person.

Dont take it hard if it takes a while for people to warm up. Theres much damage control to be done.

If you cant live with these things or think it to be other than a completely fair assessment , then GET OUT.

Other than that, welcome to R.O.

Member for

21 years 3 months

archived member Wed, 02/07/2007 - 12:37
davedog no one is perfect, be a good christian. if you would like to constructively "call me on acting like a pompous ass" there are many other ways to do so without an outright declaration, which requires immediate defensiveness from everyone involved. besides the topics have nothing to do with me or you, they have to do with the idea in discussion.

and if you feel the need to be very direct with your declarations, then you can't expect a rebuttle of the same caliber to be not tolerated.

that's the law of the jungle man.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Davedog Wed, 02/07/2007 - 14:42
Each jungle has it own set of rules. Its always a good idea, when you're traipsing through someones' jungle, to abide by those rules.

I have given you a glimpse of those in this jungle.

As far as being direct.....I'm not a person that sees a melon and shouts " Look Mommy, a Petunia..."

Direct is one thing and cruel is another. Cross that line and the jungle will shat upon you.

I'm done with the banter. You have your warning and your guidelines.

This subject is now closed.

I would like to see the subject matter back up and bringing in new thoughts on it.

Member for

16 years 1 month

hueseph Wed, 02/07/2007 - 18:21
One thing that IMHO bears a lot of influence on, not only the quality of music but the willingness of people to pay for it, is (I know this is asking for it) the degradation of values and ethics in general.

1-The degradation of the ideal of what music and art are: People no longer put boundaries on what qualifies as art. Art now is defined by it's accessibility to the viewer. If a person cannot comprehend it, it is viewed as technical jargon. Boring. I'm not opposed to minimalism but any reference to 4.33 irritates me to no end.

2-The degradation of values: (I can feel the flak already) Seriously though. Rebel ideals are so glorified that having any sort of value system causes people to grimace. Now I don't mean religion necessarily, I mean simply having a point of view as to what's write and wrong. The world has a wild west/mob rules mentality. "It's okay as long as you don't get caught." No concern over consequences. Then when they find themselves desiring to be content creaters, all of a sudden they want compensation.

Alright. Bring on the onslaught.

Member for

21 years 3 months

archived member Wed, 02/07/2007 - 20:18
i think for a long time there has been pushing of the boundaries to what art conceivably is. again, it's something that goes both ways. visually i think the perfect example is in the 40's and 50's you had emphasis on abstract paintings, where big rough and tough guys splashed some paint on a canvas and called it art. andy warhol's genius response is a campbell's soup can, in which he painted the colors of before he added the lines. not to mention he used the mass media advertising screen printing process to do this work of art.

as much as i might agree with you, i do put some value on being able to permeate and infiltrate the masses by utilization of pop sensibility. its always interesting that people like john lennon and kurt cobain, while relating to so many people were the most misunderstood guys you could ever imagine.

those who directly emulate the idea of rebellion (which should more generally be understood as a sense of freedom or liberation; having no rules to constrain you or your creativity) are most usually small minded in some sense. those who are true rebels though have little need to allude to it in 'stereotypical' fashion within (or outside) the context of their songwriting and they certainly don't have a uniform to wear or think by any set of guidelines.

no doubt there are problems though

it seems a challenge to me to coersce all the audience devoted to synthetic music back to the natural electric funeral that is rock and roll.

or any other natural expression for that matter

society's nerves are shot