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minor chords attract teenagers - what else ?

Member for

21 years
Some great topics happening here.

I've been told that teenagers seem to like songs with minor chords. When I think back, I think I was like that too. Maybe these are the years we start thinking about life more. Minor chords have a mystery to them... yes?

Are there other interesting sounds or progressions that are either age or gender related ?

Comments

Member for

16 years 7 months

moonbaby Wed, 02/07/2007 - 06:24
It was stated that "What Is and What Should Never Be"...which is off the LZII album- had a slide guitar on it. That's JP on a ShoBud pedal steel. He played lots of different styles and instruments, which is why he was a first-call session player well before the LZ days.

Member for

18 years 5 months

UncleBob58 Wed, 02/07/2007 - 10:59
I'm not so sure about the minor tonality allussions, but I know that the "universal" sound of rock (not rock'n'roll, however) is the power chord. It's sound and use has changed over the decades but it expresses the anger/angst of youth. It's all about the power chord payoff - Baba O'Reilly & Won't Get Fooled Again (The Who), Stairway to Heaven (Led Zeppelin), Rooster (Alice in Chains), Wake Me Up (When September Ends) [Green Day], add your own to the list.

Odd time signatures are fun.

The Ocean - Led Zep - Alternating 8/8 & 7/8
Four Sticks - Led Zep - 5/8 verse, 6/8 other parts (Just for fun, he played with two sticks in each hand, hence the name of the song.)
The Wait - The Pretenders - 7/8
Tarkus - ELP - 10/8
Money - Pink Floyd - 7/8
Lonely Street - Kansas - 11/8, a few 13/8 and the occasional 7/8


Bach didn't use minor tonalities? Are you nuts? Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, and Passacalia in C Minor are just two of the dozens of pieces in minor keys.

A fun discussion...



.

Member for

21 years

Member Wed, 02/07/2007 - 12:33
i was going along with what that other douchebag said, although when i think of bach i think of minuet in G major.

on what is and what should never be i could have sworn that was regular slide guitar. but i don't know it wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't the case, same with over the hills.

Member for

21 years

Member Mon, 02/19/2007 - 10:31
Thanks

Thanks Davedog..........................

Back to the dicussion...............
So did Louie Armstrong have any formal training ?
I seem to remember, he was given a horn and tought to play in the black marching bands of the time. I get the feeling that any training he did get was pretty limited and not formal or 'classical' in nature

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Wed, 02/07/2007 - 13:38
aqualand666 wrote: i was going along with what that other douchebag said, although when i think of bach i think of minuet in G major.


Uhhh...Aquafresh...seriously. Referring to folks as douchebags rather unprovoked, this is the kind of behavior you were warned about.

Besides, Demented was speaking (or typing) in a SARCASTIC manner. I would expect that you of all people would understand sarcasm.

PS -
Is that Klavier only well-tempered if major??

Member for

17 years 3 months

JoeH Mon, 02/19/2007 - 12:09
For the record, JoeJoeMan, I said it I unclear what your intention was by deliberately mispelling Jeremy's last name again and again; it sure seemed like it could be interpreted either way. (I guess you showed ME, alright!) YOU know what you wrote, and what you intended. Now we do, too.

Personally, ouzo77, I wouldn't be bragging about not knowing the difference between a major and minor chord, in a Top 40 Cover Band, but that's just me. I'm glad you're happy and life's good for you. That's great.

And if you think it's impossible to deliver an honest, heartfelt performance from a printed sheet of music, I can't even begin to explain it to you. In a way, you're guilty of the same kind of elitism and name calling as the so-called "Schooled" players might direct at players like yourself.

There's really no point in attacking either process. They both work for some, but I'm always on the side of experience and education, whether it's self-taught at the school of hard knocks, or Curtis, Berkley or Julliard.

Let's talk again in twenty years. 8-)

Member for

15 years 4 months

dementedchord Thu, 02/22/2007 - 11:02
gee...

my first reaction is ... if you have to ask you'll never understand the answer....

my second.... havent actually read any theory have you???

and third.... the problem is a lotta people just wont accept the definition... as some of their favs may not meet the criteria... ie: some rap contains no melody and hence does not technically qualify....

Member for

16 years 10 months

MadTiger3000 Wed, 02/07/2007 - 15:21
Cucco wrote:

PS -
Is that Klavier only well-tempered if major??

I had to find out!!!

From http://www.jimloy.com/physics/scale.htm :


Well tempering:

Near the beginning of the 18th Century, "well tempering" became popular. This was a little more complicated, in a way. But, every key became usable. And there were no wolves. There were several "well tempering" tuning schemes. Essentially, all octaves were pure. Keys related to C had nearly pure major thirds and fifths. Keys distant from C had much less pure sounds, but were not too bad. And the sequence, from a pure C triad to the impure distant triads, was gradual.

None of the scales or chords sounded bad. In fact every major and minor key sounded different. C sounded placid and fairly uninteresting. The more distant keys sounded more interesting. You might call some keys harsh, or agitated, or tense. And so, music could be written to suit the mood (or color) of each key.

Bach wrote the Well-Tempered Klavier, 48 prelude and fugues, two in each of the 12 major and 12 minor keys.

Member for

15 years 8 months

ouzo77 Mon, 02/19/2007 - 15:08
JoeH wrote: Personally, ouzo77, I wouldn't be bragging about not knowing the difference between a major and minor chord, in a Top 40 Cover Band, but that's just me. I'm glad you're happy and life's good for you. That's great.

And if you think it's impossible to deliver an honest, heartfelt performance from a printed sheet of music, I can't even begin to explain it to you. In a way, you're guilty of the same kind of elitism and name calling as the so-called "Schooled" players might direct at players like yourself.

first of all, i didn't say i can't tell the difference between minor and major, that's one of the few things i can. also in a top 40 band!
and i think there's nothing wrong with playing in a top 40 band. after playing 20 years in bands with own music and paying alotta money to be able to do it, it's nice to actually earn some. but that's a different discussion... btw, i am happy with it, and life's wonderful. i hope yours is, too!

i've also never said, that it's impossible to play "an honest, heartfelt performance from a printed sheet of music". i just said if you play a piece of music you've never heard before from a sheet it's not as good as it would be if you knew it by heart. i'd rather see somebody playing with closed eyes than somebody who's staring at a piece of paper.

also i never said you don't need musical education at all, i was even pointing out that it can be very helpful! i was just trying to say you can be as good a musician, even a better one, without having lessons in music theory or your instrument. for some, like me, it works, and they can express themselves musically, without education. it has nothing to do with being misinformed or stupid, like you wrote in a previous post. or do i have to have a degree in engineering to drive a car?
i liked it better to listen to other musicians and watch what they do, than learning how to interpret dots on a sheet. it's more fun learning an instrument that way. and isn't it about fun in the end? and i told you i was lazy.
but i do understand, that it's something many "educated" musicians can't accept, cause they've spent many hours and money for their education, and others who are equally good musicians or even better ones didn't. (i'm not saying i'm better than you. i don't know you or your abilities. but i'm not saying i'm not as good as you just because you're musically educated, either)


so please read the posts more carefully before quoting things that were never said (or written)! i'm sorry if my thoughts about the subject (or me playing in a top 40 band) offended you in any way. don't forget, i am uneducated...

AND i've found another "uneducated" musician who had a huge impact on modern music: kurt cobain.
admittedly not the best guitarist, but nirvana started a big revolution in rock music and did write good songs. and i'm sure he didn't shoot himself, because he didn't know the names of the chords he played... :?

Member for

15 years 4 months

dementedchord Wed, 02/07/2007 - 15:31
aqualand666 wrote:
beethoven did use minor tonalities. bach didn't..

well actually bach did as well... sorry i cant find my analysis book of all the chorales from theory 101 or i could give you just a couple of instances...

dont you find it incredebly hard to sound erudite whilst not knowing of what you speak???

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Thu, 02/22/2007 - 13:14
IIRs wrote: As a matter of fact I studied classical music for about 10 years as a youth. If I had stuck with that I would be unable to improvise today...
:wink:

Why?

I've studied classical music for nearly 30 years and I can still (and often do) improvise. In fact, my advanced theory classes only helped further.

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Thu, 02/22/2007 - 13:19
IIRs wrote: It seems to me that if music theory was as important as some here seem to think it would by now have answered the basic question "what is music?"

????

Even those who know nothing of theory and sell millions of discs APPLY the theory of which they have no knowledge.

In most cases, the producers, songwriters and engineers KNOW their theory and the talent merely sings, plays...whatever.

Think of it like this -
Many people who drive have no idea how a rack and pinion system works. However, they understand the simple concept that "if I turn this doo-hickey right, my car also turns right." Therefore, they understand the most rudimentary theory behind the functioning of that system.

Such is also true in music.

Hmmm...If I play this chord made up of a C, E, and G, it sounds good. If I add this F, it also sounds good, but adds a little....suspense. Hmmm..., now when I add this Db (minor 9, not minor 2), I get even MORE suspense. And now, when I add this B to the whole mix....I get CRAP.

Well...maybe Bach didn't tell them this, but they certainly understand it.

Member for

21 years

Member Mon, 02/19/2007 - 21:46
JoeH wrote:
For the record, JoeJoeMan, I said it I unclear what your intention was by deliberately mispelling Jeremy's last name again and again; it sure seemed like it could be interpreted either way. (I guess you showed ME, alright!) YOU know what you wrote, and what you intended. Now we do, too.

Actually I misspled his name because I was to lazy to go back and look at how it was spelled, not to mention, I'm a notorious bad speller to begin with. And maybe I was tweaking him a little, but only in a light hearted way, I really didn't mean anything by it, enough said though, I apologize.

Member for

21 years

Member Wed, 02/07/2007 - 20:47
damn those are some cute ass little fun facts, didn't suspect the tuning of musical instruments to be embedded within the golden ratio/spiral as well!

how did pythagoreas do this, i thought fixed tuning instruments were barely around by the medieval period? quite interesting the mathematical representation of the tones. and the development of accidentals thereof. i'm sure you're aware that further solidification of accidentals were created out of avoidance for the tritone in gregorian church music.

cucco, when i ask questions its not like you just asked this one. you want to prove you know a thing or two about music theory? then reflect it on an instrument. too many big music theory buffs can express so little of what they know on their instrument that its not even funny. if this isn't descriptive of you then i am sorry. besides its not even as if the historical aspects of the development of music theory are any more than looking up a quick little fact sheet like this guy just did.

i thought you weren't about spec sheets? express these things on your instrument in a musically melodic fashion and discuss the psychoacoustics of the matter, hell you should be good at that. maybe just not so good at the reflective playing part? is that why you cling to institutions like music theory and engineering so tightly?

sorry about being wrong about what keys bach used. like i said i think of minuet in G and light and fluffy baroque music when i think of him, but yeah obviously he probably didn't play in strictly one manner. i'm not mr. joe classical man, and i'm sure as hell not trying to be. i can however play the 5th caprice by pagianini, i'll record it some time. actually the only classical things that i play are minuet in g, caprice, and dee - randy rhoads, that's about it, a few other licks here and there. it's not that i can't though. what do you play?

i would say that the beatles - black bird, and dee are both direct allusions to bach. and i believe they are both major and in the key of G. go figure.

p.s. Li Jie kicks ass

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