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Spray painting drum cymbals.

Member for

21 years
I thought it would nifty to paint my cymbals to match my drumset...

how do you think this would affect the sound and performance of the cymbals?

lol...

Comments

Member for

17 years

zemlin Sun, 02/25/2007 - 19:58
If I were going to try this, I'd use Lacquer - it's thin, dries fast, and easy to repair in the event of stick damage. Also, it would be easy to undo if it turns out to be a problem - acetone will take it right off - probably the original logo too.

Make sure you CLEAN the cymbals well before you paint - I'd probably use acetone for that too. Make sure you're working in a well ventilated space.

Member for

8 years 10 months

DonnyThompson Sat, 04/04/2015 - 06:18
Personally, I wouldn't put any material on cymbals. Aesthetics aside, it sounds to me like the perfect recipe for disastrous sonic results... not to mention the potential for shrapnel flying around the stage. ;)

You can buy colored cymbals - and I'm pretty certain that the folks at Zildjian or Paiste aren't using a can of Krylon spray paint to do the job. ;)


Member for

21 years

audiokid Sat, 04/04/2015 - 08:24
pcrecord, post: 427545, member: 46460 wrote: I think a painting coat is a big mistake, unless its somekind of flexible, it would chip off easily. In any case it would be terrible for the sound.

One thing that might give acceptable results is using somekind of wood stain or chimical treatment.
Good suggestion on that, my thoughts too. but I suspect you'd need to clear coat them to get them to look like a Rat Rod.
Attached files

Member for

21 years

audiokid Sat, 04/04/2015 - 08:30
DonnyThompson, post: 427549, member: 46114 wrote: Personally, I wouldn't put any material on cymbals. Aesthetics aside, it sounds to me like the perfect recipe for disastrous sonic results... not to mention the potential for shrapnel flying around the stage. ;)

You can buy colored cymbals - and I'm pretty certain that the folks at Zildjian or Paiste aren't using a can of Krylon spray paint to do the job. ;)


Wow, I had no idea you could buy cymbals painted like this. Not my idea of cool though. Stage lighting and brass looks traditionally awesome to me. New fashion I suppose. They look like they would sound wrong in a none sustaining way. Maybe closer to the sound of MP3's but without the "swirly" effect lol.

Love to here back from him and any reviews on these modern painted ones? I wonder what the process is to finish them? Looks like baked enamel. I can see what looks to be brass in the hole. Most likely drilling the hole is the last step of the production process.
Looks like its definitely a coating over brass and not some hybrid composite brass.

Member for

19 years 2 months

Kurt Foster Sat, 04/04/2015 - 09:18
audiokid, post: 427551, member: 1 wrote: Wow, I had no idea you could buy cymbals painted like this. Not my idea of cool though. Stage lighting and brass looks traditionally awesome to me. New fashion I suppose. They look like they would sound wrong in a none sustaining way. Maybe closer to the sound of MP3's but without the "swirly" effect lol.

Love to here back from him and any reviews on these modern painted ones? I wonder what the process is to finish them? Looks like baked enamel. I can see what looks to be brass in the hole. Most likely drilling the hole is the last step of the production process.
Looks like its definitely a coating over brass and not some hybrid composite brass.

looks to me like those are anodized.

on the other hand, i say go ahaead and paint them. i would use that "Flexshield" paint ... the rubber spray sh*t ... you get what you ask for ... (deserve).

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Mon, 02/26/2007 - 06:14
theaero wrote: The only reason I am contemplating painting my cymbals is because I have a crappy sabian b8 set. Even if it didnt do harm or change sound, if I had some Custom Ks or something high end, i still wouldnt risk it.

There's nothing too bad about the B8s. They're about as thick as trash can lids, but that's about it.

A thin coat of paint shouldn't cause any issues.

Either lacquer like Karl suggests or *lightly* spray paint with a thin, even coat.

Member for

15 years 5 months

BobRogers Mon, 02/26/2007 - 06:35
I agree that there isn't really much risk here. A thin coat of lacquer comes off with a rag dipped in lacquer thinner and a darker, drier sound may be a good thing (especially to someone who likes Custom K's).

Jeremy - If I understand my physics of musical instruments right (a big if) there's a big difference between the function of a cymbal (which acts as both the generator of the vibration and the resonator) and a horn (whose primary function is to constrain the vibrating column of air) Yes, the horn is a resonator as well, but it's the air inside doing most of the vibrating - isn't it?

To me the better analogy is coating guitar strings (though that doesn't get the whole picture either).

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Mon, 02/26/2007 - 06:41
BobRogers wrote:
Jeremy - If I understand my physics of musical instruments right (a big if) there's a big difference between the function of a cymbal (which acts as both the generator of the vibration and the resonator) and a horn (whose primary function is to constrain the vibrating column of air) Yes, the horn is a resonator as well, but it's the air inside doing most of the vibrating - isn't it?

Not quite.

Yes, the air inside does in fact vibrate, but it's not the majority of the sound. The air in the horn must travel greater than 12 feet before it even leaves the instrument. Even at great speeds, that would be a significant delay between attack and sound.

The vast majority of the sound comes from the vibration of the metal. (Which is why it makes such a HUGE difference in the sound when horns are made out of different metals.)

Cheers -

Jeremy

Member for

8 years 7 months

pcrecord Sun, 04/05/2015 - 04:30
Kurt Foster, post: 427552, member: 7836 wrote: looks to me like those are anodized.

on the other hand, i say go ahaead and paint them. i would use that "Flexshield" paint ... the rubber spray sh*t ... you get what you ask for ... (deserve).

This would be ideal to kill the cymbal sounds if you want to make a practice kit or trigger kit.

this is what paint results looks like :



I think color matching the drums is quite ugly anyway :

Member for

15 years 5 months

BobRogers Mon, 02/26/2007 - 07:36
The air doesn't travel from one end of the horn to the other. It sets up standing waves inside the tube. To stop a note, you just stop blowing. You don't grip the bell like you would to stop the note of a cymbal. I guess my point is that it just projects the sound rather than creates it. The guitar analogy would be that the horn is the soundboard - the air is the string. A cymbal is both. (Again, in my imperfect understanding.)

I was going to do some research on this for a book on partial differential equations and sound. I got sidetracked on another project. Maybe I'll actually learn this some day.

On the lacquered/unlacquered horn issue. I've met people who think it makes a difference on solid body electric guitars. Of course, they're rock musicians, so you never know what they've been smokin'.

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Mon, 02/26/2007 - 08:19
BobRogers wrote: The air doesn't travel from one end of the horn to the other.

It actually does Bob.

This is evident by the technique known as "stopping" on the horn in which the air exiting the bell is restricted using the right hand and thus altering the sound (significantly) and altering the pitch by 1/2 step.

The pitch alteration is a side-effect of less metal vibrating. However, the timbre change is caused by the air not leaving the instrument. (As is evident if I were to remove the bell of my horn. The pitch would change, however, the timbre would alter only to a degree, not to the degree which is achieved by stopping.

Of course, not to mention the fact that I can feel the air rushing past my right hand while I play.

Member for

15 years 5 months

BobRogers Mon, 02/26/2007 - 09:25
Aaak. My mistake. Of course there is a basic s flow. (You're blowing in one end. The air must go somewhere.) But it is the standing wave superimposed on the flow that causes the sound - not the flow. You can blow all you want into a brass instrument and there is no sound until you buzz and create the standing wave. I would guess that the stopping has more to do with altering the shape of the cavity than the restriction of the flow - but I really don't know.

Anyway - I've hijacked this thread pretty badly. Sorry.

Member for

21 years

Member Thu, 03/08/2007 - 00:48
Has anyone tried it yet, or am I gunna have to be the first one? Lol.

Who knows, if a thin coat of laquer on a cymbal could produce a more desired sound, then it could open a door to a whole new wave of sounds. coated brass instruments, like trumpets and shizz might end up sounding really cool.

Not to mention, instruments could start looking a lot less typical :)

Member for

16 years

RemyRAD Thu, 03/08/2007 - 01:27
I think all this discussion about blowing, sucks? Isn't this supposed to be a woman's topic?? What do you guys know?

I wouldn't paint a cymbal. Too thick and messy. Have you ever tried painting your own nails? Of course not...... I hope not?!?!

Maybe, you like the sound of beating on trash can lids? I don't. I like fat sound and thin cymbals. Not fat cymbals and thin sound. Rather, I would think that possibly having the cymbals anodized would be the way to go? The colors are better and it makes the cymbal nonconductive, so you can't get shocked by how bad it sounds.

Trashy smashy
Ms. Remy Ann David

Member for

21 years

Member Mon, 02/26/2007 - 18:40
Cucco wrote: The air in the horn must travel greater than 12 feet before it even leaves the instrument. Even at great speeds, that would be a significant delay between attack and sound.

The air doesn't need to travel through all 12 feet before sound comes out the end. Imagine if the horn was full of water - blow in the mouthpiece and water immediately comes out the other end - but its not the water that was at your lips an instant before, its the water that was already at the bell end.

The sound waves (pressure variations in the air - and in the metal of the horn, too) travel at the speed of sound, of course. But the bulk airflow is much smaller, and doesn't contribute much to the sound that is generated. I don't think that the air "rushing past" your hand is going Mach 1, right?

In all, both the horn material/shape and the air column inside it contribute to the sound that you hear - but I would think that the majority of the contribution is from the air itself, which is then modulated by the vibration of the metal.

Sorry to continue the hijacking...

There's one way to answer the original cymbal question... try it and let us know what happens!

Member for

17 years 6 months

Cucco Mon, 02/26/2007 - 20:00
Perhaps the mod of this forum could split it where we begin to go off on a tangent...

But...
There seems to be a misconception of how a brass instrument works. It is not merely the vibrating column of air which makes the sound. It is a symbiotic relationship between the air and direct coupling of vibration (lip buzzing into mouthpiece into metal). Take any of the equation away and you are still left with sound, but not one that is really recognizable as the instrument being intended.

I encourage all of you to check out http://www.lawsonhorns.com. Walter and Bruce have put some very good white papers out to several scientific communities regarding how brass instruments actually work. It's quite fascinating to visit their shop. One of the cool tools they have is a speaker which has been mounted to a mouthpiece which allows a repeatable signal (vibration) to be passed into a horn and measured. Bear in mind, there is VERY little vibration of air involved in this procedure and a very recognizable horn sound emerges from the bell.

My point about the air coming out the bell was to state that:
1 - the air does in fact pass through the entire instrument
2 - It is not merely the vibration of the air which creates the sound.

To suggest that the air is the single greatest component in the sound is counter to all of my personal experiences. For example, the simple changing of a bell flair (the last 10% of the metal on a horn) can completely change the entire sound of the instrument. This isn't voodoo or subjective - this is accepted fact.

Seriously...check out Lawson's page, there is some very good info there.

Cheers! (y)

Jeremy
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