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It's plain to see that not too many of us have all the money we need. We all face constraints when it comes to funding our passion, recording.

How do all of you deal with this? Where do you cut corners with your investment in audio? By now, I am pretty sure you all know my preferences but I am really interested in learning what yours are. ? I hope this topic can shed some light on the advantages and pitfalls of equipment purchasing for everyone ... Please discuss ...

Comments

anonymous Wed, 12/29/2004 - 09:16

e-bay is no longer the good deal that it once was for buying used gear. Its become way too competitive. I've been using e-bay since the beginning, back in the days when most stuff sold for rock bottom prices. Nowadays, the market is oversaturated with buyers, and everyone is looking for a deal... and the bidders on e-bay ruin it for everyone because many of them are overly anxious to buy (a major amateur mistake) and they do not know how to properly evaluate the price of a used item (thats an interesting economics discussion right there.... which I dont really want to get into).... but far too many times I've seen people buy used gear for almost the price of a new product.

Alot of these inexperienced e-bay bidders nowadays are fools who just hurt everyone. Anyone whos ever been in a blue-collar business such as the contracting industry knows that theres a whole economic theory of having to dealing with "lowballers".... that is contractors who are desperate for jobs.... so they tell the customer they'll do the job for some outrageously low price... and 9 times out of 10, they'll misestimate and either end up asking for more money.... or just do a shitty job... leaving teh customer to realize that you get what you pay for....

Anyway, my point is.... if any of you guys on here are the ones that "highball" the prices on e-bay when bidding.... STOP IT. Stop it now. Your hurting everyone because e-bay sellers nowadays are often getting 70-90 percent of the new price for used eqpt.... thats just rediculous.

That being said, if you bide your time carefully and are not too anxious to buy right away like most e-bay fools are..... you can occasionally pick up some great deals. I once got a matched pair of Earthworks QTC1 microphones for $375 US Dollars.... and thats for both of them... not each. I cant believe the seller even sold it to me since I'm sure he likely wanted at least 2 - 3 times that price.

The sniping on e-bay has also gotten rediculous. "Sniping" is last minute bidding, for those that dont speak e-bay lingo. I can't really blame people for that.... since its just plain smart to do that to be honest. Sniping was a very effective trick many, many years ago.... but now basically 95 percent of bidders bid at the last minute which just makes it rediculous because it becomes like a radio call in contest where you have to be lucky enough to be the 9th caller or something... It almost seems as if its no longer a fair an honest bidding process anymore.... but rather who can click "enter bid" and the refresh button the fastest and then "enter bid" and refresh again... the quickest.

--------------------------------

B&H is another company which somebody mentioned. I've never been burned by B&H; their a very reliable comany, but their problem is that they rarely carry any of the pro audio gear in stock.... they special order it all, which just adds to the waiting time..... but I disagree with the other guy in terms of B&H's pricing. I've found that if your willing to wait.... B&H will consistently undercut any other major online seller such as musiciansfriend.com... and I've found that B&H isnt just a few dollrs cheaper either... I've noticed they are consistently 10 - 25 percent cheaper, meaning they often undercutr musiciansfriend.com by $75 - 100bux for an item which only costs maybe $400 - 500 to begin with.

anonymous Sat, 01/01/2005 - 02:48

eBay tips

If you go to auctions for cheap gear, stay away from the common stuff (sm57s etc.) I've found that these get bid up to darn near the new price. Do some research and find good mics that nobody knows about. These things can be had for a song. There are other good deals out there for the same reason. For example, noise gates tend to go for reasonable prices because people think they have a good one on their compressor (they don't.)
Knowledge is your friend, look for good stuff which other people don't recognize.

anonymous Fri, 01/07/2005 - 18:40

my 3 cents

Ok first off, I have found that thier are alot of compulsive buyers out there and alot of people that get into big studio equipment that they have to part with shortly after they get it. Not to mention the huge amount of studios that have to close down because of lack of buisness. The most valuble resource I have found is http:// <---- it is a free classifieds voard that get quit a few hits a day. and caters to us small people not big companies, it also has a bartering and free stuff available Not to mention that I belong to the first church of ebay.
I have built and rebuilt my studio here time and time again.
Most studios are sold when people lose thier jobs have kids or get abducted by aliens (j/k)
I got a condenser mic off ebay for a 100 bucks, bought 20 cables all monster for 15 bucks

the other place thqat i go os limewire. It is a p2p software sharing program taht works. Now I am not an advicate of stealing software, I do how ever like to try full versions before I plunk down 500 bucks. -I have found that the demo versions do absolute shit for my learning experience.

so kids remember, always drink your ovaltine , check ebay ,and alwasy use craigslist.org

anonymous Sat, 01/08/2005 - 21:17

I have found that I have made purchases at a lower cost that later I have sold on Ebay to get better equipment. Sorry to those guys that were spanking Ebay earlier, it worked great for me. My Aardvark Q10 sold just before the Aardvark website was taken off the internet. Did they go bust?
Sometimes even with long amounts of research, the sale force had me fooled. Many specification do not always tell the whole story.
My Aardvark Q10 sold on ebay, because the drivers caused repeated crashes. I had to sell it. But if you look at the reviews and specs the Aardvark Q10 is great. Actual use proves otherwise.
The best buys I have made, have been in researching this website for actual users of studio equipment. I still had to take the views with a grain of salt and do much research, because there is still a tendency to believe our next toy is the greatest. Includes me!Buying the proper equipment in the first place is to me the greatest savings.
For oversea purchases be sure to talk to the manufacturer to figure out how you can get the equipment shipped without paying excessive duty taxes. I have made that mistake too.
Peace!
Greg Alcorn
Alcorn Studios

anonymous Sat, 01/08/2005 - 22:20

Definately Mac

rolandomota wrote: can anyone answer whether or not mac is better than pc for recording?

The Mac is much easier to configure for audio use. Save an extension set which includes nothing but those extensions needed by the audio application. That way the computer is not bothered by any other task. The Mac operating system also uses much less RAM than any Windows OS. This is important because you should operate without virtual memory.
Please do your surfing and business tasks on another computer: audio recording and editing is very selfish when it comes to processor resources.

JoeH Sun, 01/09/2005 - 12:35

<>

Not entirely true, and for the most part irrelevant. You can create multiple users with WINXP as well, and run the computer without any other apps or overhead if you so choose. You can also do dual boots with WINXP machines and run only what you need for audio ONLY, disabling as much superfluous stuff in the OS to minimize CPU overhead if you really want to.

For today's faster machines and higher RAM capacity, it's largely a moot point.

It really comes down to doing your homework in your choice of platforms and apps; and what you'll feel comfortable in the end. There are no "Better" choices per se, it's really finding out what you need and how you're going to work. MIDI? Film Scores? Rock band tracking dates? Home studio environment?

Lucky for you, there's MANY choices, on either platform, and again, neither one "Works better" than the other. That's an old myth from the old days of platform wars.

anonymous Sun, 01/09/2005 - 15:10

When I saw the subject line for this thread about "How to save money when making audio purchases" I thought about those times when it is better to think about spending more rather than less. Specifically, one of my biggest gripes is the decline of caring and thoughtful customer service and quality performance in America. And when I find a business whose employees look me in the eye, speak to me, and show me that they care about the service they provide… I am delighted and continue to do business with them. For example, Randy Smith, the owner/engineer who created Mesa Engineering (Mesa Boogie guitar amps) tells a lovely story in his catalog brochure about his dedication to making the best product (just as he did with his very first guitar amp) and giving his customers great service. I don’t mind paying a little extra to a business that deserves a little extra for caring. I used to think that I could not afford a Mesa Boogie guitar amp because they cost a more, but then I realized that I could not afford to not buy one, since I want to support businesses with ethical values. I am still saving up for one of those. Likewise for every dealing I have had with Wes Dooley, Gene Lawson, Doug Fearn, Nathan Eldred, Chris Keffer, Fred Forssell, Warren Dent, SafeSound, John LaGrou, and many others. I haven't made a purchase from Mercernary yet, but from the quality remarks of others who have, I plan to do so in the future. Besides, Fletcher is always very generous with his advice for me. I no longer buy into the idea of getting a good deal because it is cheaper if the business shows me that profit is all that they care about. There are many things that are so much more important then a price tag in order to be valuable. So, when I reflect on those purchases that I feel were the wisest I have made, they are not necessarily those that were the least expensive. The wisest purchases were those I made with individuals and companies that I want to support because I admire and appreciate there service, ethics and customer loyalty.
I think it is possible to make wise choices on ebay with caution. I have made some great purchases on ebay and have been burned once as well. By and large the majority of individuals selling pro audio gear on ebay were willing to provide a phone number so I could ask them questions directly, and I have done the same for those that inquired about gear I wanted to sell or trade. I have met many very nice and honest individuals on ebay that I would certainly work with again. But you really have to know how to use ebay to avoid a burn, and with proper precautions it can be rewarding.
SG

anonymous Sun, 01/09/2005 - 18:23

JoeH wrote:
Not entirely true, and for the most part irrelevant. You can create multiple users with WINXP as well, and run the computer without any other apps or overhead if you so choose. You can also do dual boots with WINXP machines and run only what you need for audio ONLY, disabling as much superfluous stuff in the OS to minimize CPU overhead if you really want to.
For today's faster machines and higher RAM capacity, it's largely a moot point.

Let's see, Mac OS 9 uses 26 Meg while XP requires 228 Meg to run. And, NO version of Winduhs can run without Internet Exploder. I don't need a web browser running when I'm doing serious number crunching in an audio app.
Further, the instruction pipe on an Intel processor contains over twice as many instructions, much easier to create a jam.

anonymous Wed, 01/12/2005 - 21:51

captain_analog wrote: [quote=JoeH]
Not entirely true, and for the most part irrelevant. You can create multiple users with WINXP as well, and run the computer without any other apps or overhead if you so choose. You can also do dual boots with WINXP machines and run only what you need for audio ONLY, disabling as much superfluous stuff in the OS to minimize CPU overhead if you really want to.
For today's faster machines and higher RAM capacity, it's largely a moot point.

Let's see, Mac OS 9 uses 26 Meg while XP requires 228 Meg to run. And, NO version of Winduhs can run without Internet Exploder. I don't need a web browser running when I'm doing serious number crunching in an audio app.
Further, the instruction pipe on an Intel processor contains over twice as many instructions, much easier to create a jam.

Actually - Win XP only requires 64 MB to run on your computer (check the system requirements on the box) - the reason they need explorer to run is because the gui is BASED around explorer - just like the mac has a gui....same thing...just explorer is ALSO used for web surfing (that there would be "efficiency" :wink: )

anonymous Mon, 01/17/2005 - 00:06

JoeH wrote:

Actually - Win XP only requires 64 MB to run on your computer (check the system requirements on the box) - the reason they need explorer to run is because the gui is BASED around explorer - just like the mac has a gui....same thing...just explorer is ALSO used for web surfing (that there would be "efficiency" :wink: )

Go ahead, turn off virtual memory (a requirement of most audio recorder/editor apps) and try to restart Winduhs. I hope you know how to start in safe mode to turn virtual memory back on because your PC ain't gonna start with only 64 megs: been there, tried that.
On the PC around here Norton tells me that the system is using over 200 meg just idling (XP Professional.)
Sorry, but efficiency is using the least resources needed to accomplish a task. It is not bundling a web browser into a necessary part of your GUI.
One does not make a sports car faster or more efficient by adding doors and a back seat.

imagineaudio Wed, 01/19/2005 - 20:00

Just to let you know, i have an audio pc and a seperate internet pc.....two weeks ago in my internet pc (running WinXP Pro) i blew one of the ram sticks. Once the bad memory was removed all i had left running was 64megs.....not a single problem starting up, no problem surfing the net, no problems d/l mp3's or playing streaming video......although everything took a little bit longer......but i wouldnt call the performance unacceptable.....it was quite capable at 64megs......(though i do prefer 192MB on this machine for internet.

PS its a PIII 450mhz machine

JoeH Wed, 01/19/2005 - 20:23

Captainanalog:

If you're going to quote someone, do it correctly. You are NOT quoting me. Learn to check your posts before you make them.

As for "Who's got the faster car, OS, or Application," you're welcome to your assumptions and name calling. I left that PC vs MAC nonsense behind years ago. It's a waste of everyone's time. We're all glad you've got a MAC and you're happy with it.

Thanks for your input.

The rest of us have work to do.

anonymous Sat, 01/22/2005 - 14:04

imagineaudio wrote: Just to let you know, i have an audio pc and a seperate internet pc.....two weeks ago in my internet pc (running WinXP Pro) i blew one of the ram sticks. Once the bad memory was removed all i had left running was 64megs.....not a single problem starting up, no problem surfing the net, no problems d/l mp3's or playing streaming video......although everything took a little bit longer......but i wouldnt call the performance unacceptable.....it was quite capable at 64megs......(though i do prefer 192MB on this machine for internet.

PS its a PIII 450mhz machine

Please note that I said that it won't boot with 64 Meg without using virtual memory. Audio and graphics apps do not work well with virtual memory (one cause of clicks in your audio can be virtual memory.)
In fact, ProTools will not start if virtual memory is not disabled.

anonymous Wed, 01/26/2005 - 13:17

It takes a lot of reseach but since i invested in some secondhand recording devices 2 years ago, the value of my equipment almost tripled. And I earned some money from customers who rented my stuff.
a few tips:
1. Buy only things you really like. Don't believe others by word but take in account that also music recording has its dogma's and traditions which you have to deal with
2. Keep your equipment in excellent shape: it's valuable and will be in the future
3. don't invest in explicit sound machines which can only produce explicit sounds: mannerisms are effects and most of them become boring after a short while.
4. Don't think that better equipment will make you a better engineer, but remember that better equipment will make it possible to make better recordings. The question is "what is the better equipment for you?" or " do you recognize your capabilities?"

Greetings!

anonymous Sat, 02/19/2005 - 16:57

To save the money - think seven times, buy ones (and do not mind
the ads on this forum).

To pro-Mac & pro-PC fighters - Average opinion is that Windows has
more problems than Mac OS. For example: Windows PC will get slower
with the usage (my SAs told me that there's an operating system
database that over flow the memory). One way to get around is to
re-install the system without touching filesystem.

Costy.

cfaalm Mon, 02/21/2005 - 11:51

Einkaufen

John Stafford wrote: If you're European,
BUY FROM GERMANY!!!
.....
I can see, Germany is the place to look for real bargains. Musik-service and Musicians Gear have great prices.....

You bet!! I bought my Yamaha 01V96 from Musik-Service for € 2180. Anywhere else it was close to € 2500. Lately I have been purchasing a lot of stuff from Musik Produktiv.

The only downside of buying from the internet is that you really have to know what you're looking for. When in doubt, visit a shop.

And yes, making your own cables saves you a bundle. Couldn´t agree more.

anonymous Sun, 03/06/2005 - 07:25

Windows PC will get slower
with the usage (my SAs told me that there's an operating system
database that over flow the memory). One way to get around is to
re-install the system without touching filesystem

If you have a dedicated system this is not likley to happen, the system slows with the more programs that are installed, so no games on the music computer

I have used XP for a while and have recorded up to 64 tracks with no problems

anonymous Sun, 03/06/2005 - 21:25

A really good way to save money on gear is: SLEEP OVER SALES (yes, i was shouting :)

In five years, I have picked up about ten items totalling over $7000 for under $400 (in Australian dollars mate)!

Yuo just turn up a day or five early, with your sleeping bag and if allowed, tent, van etc and some people bring campervans, couches, eskies full of beer etc...

it's an awesome party at the very least! And at the end of it all, they finally let you into the store on the morning of the sale, and you buy your $2500 keyboard marked down to $20 (one only of course :) and you go home incredibly tired, hungover and/or trashed and wake up three days later and say

"yay, I just save a coupla grand...cool bananas "

It really does work:

Here's a list of stuff I've gotten:with prices in AUD

Roland A70 master keyboard controller: $20

Boss SP202 sampler (2 at two different sales) $10 & $20 respectively

Behringer three pack mic set: $5

Boss Dr 770 drum machine$ 40

etc etc etc

try it if you have the time....its well worth it

anonymous Mon, 03/14/2005 - 14:08

Get a tax ID number and setup find some wholesale distributors to buy from. Full Compass has a sister company called Full Wholesale that sales at 10% over cost. You have to have a resale TAX ID number through which are easy to get. I'm also a direct dealer for 50 pro audio companies since I'm a sound contractor so I get things at cost.

anonymous Thu, 03/17/2005 - 03:20

Get a tax ID number and setup find some wholesale distributors to buy from. Full Compass has a sister company called Full Wholesale that sales at 10% over cost. You have to have a resale TAX ID number through which are easy to get. I'm also a direct dealer for 50 pro audio companies since I'm a sound contractor so I get things at cost.

If you are NOT buying for resale (your own use), then you are required to pay "use tax" (at least in the US). Of course, it may take a while before you are caught. Go for it.

anonymous Sun, 03/20/2005 - 17:44

cleamon wrote:

Get a tax ID number and setup find some wholesale distributors to buy from. Full Compass has a sister company called Full Wholesale that sales at 10% over cost. You have to have a resale TAX ID number through which are easy to get. I'm also a direct dealer for 50 pro audio companies since I'm a sound contractor so I get things at cost.

If you are NOT buying for resale (your own use), then you are required to pay "use tax" (at least in the US). Of course, it may take a while before you are caught. Go for it.

It's all forsale. Just setup as a Demo :)

anonymous Sat, 03/26/2005 - 14:23

FOHman, Do you know the website or phone # of Full Wholesale? You can email me if you want at: claudemorrow@aol.com. Thanks in advance.

Claude

FOHman wrote: [quote=cleamon]
Get a tax ID number and setup find some wholesale distributors to buy from. Full Compass has a sister company called Full Wholesale that sales at 10% over cost. You have to have a resale TAX ID number through which are easy to get. I'm also a direct dealer for 50 pro audio companies since I'm a sound contractor so I get things at cost.

If you are NOT buying for resale (your own use), then you are required to pay "use tax" (at least in the US). Of course, it may take a while before you are caught. Go for it.

It's all forsale. Just setup as a Demo :)

TheArchitect Sun, 04/03/2005 - 10:05

May or may not be useful in a commercial application but for home/project studio I have found that some of the freeware plugs are pretty impressive for the price. Not Waves but certainly servicable. kjaerhus in particular makes some good stuff. Their commercial products are very good for low $$ as well.

Past that shop with your ears and not your eyes. Certainly there are known commodities that are a sure thing like Neuman but its the up and coming mfg's and fringe guys that can really surprise you with good stuff but for whatever reason no one knows about or just doesn't catch on. At least until some heavy hitter mentions them and then you can never dfind another one!! LOL!

moinho Mon, 05/09/2005 - 02:50

kingfrog wrote: Mix down in your bedroom...the bed and drapes are a cheap but effective bass trap.......vocals can be recorded minus room echo there as well .

Kingfrog, you're the man! Now this is what I call cutting on audio equipment costs, by using my bed as a piece of audio equipment.

I'm about to setup my new pair of BM5As in my bedroom because I had the feeling it sounded somehow "more clean" - now I know why!

Thanks,

Rainer

anonymous Mon, 05/23/2005 - 11:08

using logic express instead of pro.
using a single stereo input instead of 8 and recording part by part. (until i can afford an 8 channel interface)
got a shure 57 beta for 90$ off ebay (best deal of my life!). even when i get thousand dollar condensers and such, ill STILL use this mic for the rest of my life.
bought an 800$ amp in a pawn shop for 300$ that has a great tone for solid state.

but i record in my living room not my bedroom, although when i move i will be recording in my bedroom.

anonymous Mon, 05/30/2005 - 20:14

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, but...

Stay away from computers! Don't upgrade. Don't buy computer audio stuff in the first place if you don't have any. I have saved over $3000 in the past two and a half years just by not upgrading any of my audio-related software. It still works just as poorly as it always did. I now use a Yamaha AW4416 (with a very upgraded front end) for audio and a Yamaha QY700 for midi. This setup works far better than a dedicated DAW (better midi timing, better audio quality, easy and reliable audio editing, perfect sync when you need it, all very easy to use, and absolutely no trouble-shooting time). (Don't know about Macs, but I tried everything on PC including Cubase with Midex8, Logic, and Cakewalk). (Not pushing Yamaha in particular--other companies make good stuff as well).

These two items together cost much less than a dedicated audio computer with an expensive sound card, midi interface and software, let alone a controller (with moving faders?) and all the other stuff you want to add to your computer setup. I expect these things will work reliably for ten years without any upgrades or repairs. What's more, I actually own them (not just a license to use them), and I don't need anybody's permission if I ever want to sell them.

So my own personal view (everybody entitled to their own, and I just wish the best of luck to those who want to use computers) is to stay away from computers, buy decent audio and midi gear that will work reliably all the time, and then spend your upgrade money over the years on more gear. I'd rather feed my habit, than the habits of some software developers I don't know!

BDFitz Fri, 06/03/2005 - 22:54

There are a lot of good comments here and there are probably many people making better music on lesser budgets and others with better toys but consider this: I've passed on buying gear from places that don't offer returns ( or make it more difficult) or don't give me what I want. Example. What do we all want? value, yet the bottom dollar is not, in itself value. I have been loaded down with extra pieces of gear because it is easier to give away merchandise than discount a certain item the store has no flexibility on. Make sure you can use the extra gear! 2) Price reduction is no value if its a bad purchase. I bought my entire mic cabinet from stores that would allow me to return (or at least trade in) the ones I didn't like. When I recently took a look back over 4 years of gear lust I was happy to see very few busts. Mackie d8b, HDR & HR824's, Avalon Pre, Neumann TLM103, EMU B3 module, Trident S20, RODE NTK (pr), Eclipse, TC Finalizer, Lexicon MXP1, Royer121. Granted, these area few of my favorites but I bought at reasonable prices. (Trident S20 was $808, that's $404 each for dual mic pre's) and my latest purchases include an Apogee Big Ben Clock and Cascade v55 mic. I have no doubt, both will significantly upgrade my studio and will be around for a long, long time and oh yeah.....3) research, research, research. If it's a simple-stupid piece of gear like a Dr Z Boutique amp get the deal. If it's a complex piece with a huge learning curve, pay for the support it requires (Eventide-Eclipse) to make the most of your purchase. my 2 cents

anonymous Sat, 07/16/2005 - 16:00

Sales reps

Get a discount from a sales rep. Remember, most of them work on commission. If you have any reason to go elsewhere bring it up to them. I live in MA, and we have sales tax. In the past I was looking for equipment, and a GC in (tax-free) New Hampshire didn't have it. The local music store did, but I didn't want to pay the huge sales tax. I brought up the tax issue and the sales rep wacked 5% (MA sales tax) off to make the deal even. I brought up the fact that I still had no reason to go to him instead of NH, since I live equally close to both locations. (He wasn't aware that GC didn't have the item in stock). He asked what he could do to make the deal work, and although it's something small I did got a free monster cable out of him.

The point is they work on commission, and almost no price is a fixed price. Make a sales rep work for the sale, you will usually get some little accessories thrown in there. I also like to look for a flaw if I can. If there is anything wrong, even if it's just a few scratches or a really small dent, bring it up. You'd be amazed at what you can get in exchange.

vinniesrs Wed, 07/27/2005 - 22:29

I currently work as a commissioned sales rep. I think that if you came to me with that approach it might just work, BUT if you want really good deals say"I want to spend $xxx.xx and I need to get this". I'll work my ass off to get you the best bang for the buck. A good salesmen has your best interests at heart and he knows he can get your biz by doing a good job. When he get's your business he makes money too and everyone is happy. He'll give you a good deal and add value to your purchase by offering quality support and keeping you informed about good deals.

I ALWAYS get killer deals and develop good relationships with those whom I buy from. Try it. :)