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Questions about romplers

Hi.

I'm just curious. What can't they make Romplers to operate like analogs, ie, lots of buttons and knobs. With Romplers you have to do digital editing through screens, eventually getting to the waveform to edit it with numbers. Seems like it's all the same thing to me, even though Romplers are sample based sound sources. You still go in and do the same kind of editing or creating of sounds.

Just wondering.

Cheers,
Sioux

Comments

Mario-C. Wed, 08/06/2003 - 08:09
Hmm Nope (answering sioux's question), romplers have samples stored in ROM memory, just like a sampler only they keep data in different memory chips (the ROMs) so you won't lose it when you turn it off, VAs and physical modeling synths generate sound by resonating complex mathematical models in real time...

btw the Roland JD800 is a ROM synth with lots of sliders but it was discontinued

anonymous Wed, 08/06/2003 - 08:56
Hi Uncle Bob! You know, I checked out Phat Boy but a friend of mine totally talked me out of it. Of course, he is a programmer so the PB was stupid to him. Regarding all of that, I wonder how much true capacity of the Rompler you lose by using a device like PB. I understand that some devices do more than others like perhaps the FadeMaster. I like this idea though. I feel that if I have to stop and scroll through screens and digitally program a sound, by the time I'm finished I've forgotten why I was there. Unless of course you do your programming one day and create music another.

Thanks Mario and Nate. Good clarification on the modelling and sample based ROM. That's very clear.

I still bet if the Rompler people would make their synths operate like analogs people would love them a lot more. :) I would. I bet they will do it that way in time too!

Cheers,
Sioux

Nate Tschetter Wed, 08/06/2003 - 09:21
Howdy

I bet they won't. Its too expensive and knobs don't sell as many keyboards as Wave ROM size, polyphony, stereo effects and most importantly, price point. I mean, for every knob or controller they put on an instrument they have to devote processor power, components, circuit board space, etc. If they have a few "soft controls" that can be assigned to do anything, they get around this.

You should check out the Novation Remote 25. It has shitloads of knobs, sliders and buttons. You can program each one of them to do whatever your TG is capable of (over MIDI0. They can send out control change, pitch bend, sysex, aftertouch plus MMC. Not only that but you can then name all those controllers so when you move something, _what_ it does pops up in the display. You can save and recall your assignments in a template.

I have one, I dig it. Great for controlling softsynths.

Mario-C. Wed, 08/06/2003 - 13:27
Sioux,
Do you really need an extra controller ? most rompler synths usually have the same controllers assigned to typical parameters, like filter cutoff= controller 74, resonance=controller 71 and so on, you could use your A6 to control your other synths, in the A6 ribbon controller and wheels controller numbers are assignable and programmable per program, with the latest OS update the A6's knobs transmit midi controller data, it will require some tweaking but depending on the rompler you are trying to control it could work pretty good

anonymous Thu, 08/14/2003 - 02:35
I'm new to this forum and am a huge Kurzweil fan. I use my Kurzweil K2600S in the way you suggest. It has tons of sliders, ribbons, buttons and foot controllers. All of them can be asigned to control any aspect of the synth or effects. It is not only a sampler, but a virtual analog and can do EM and additive and just about any other type of synthesis. I also use it's many controllers to control my soft synths. With the midi learn function it's a snap. I'm sure you could do the same with your A6.

Ethan Winer Fri, 08/15/2003 - 05:39
Sioux,

> What can't they make Romplers to operate like analogs
I'm surprised nobody mentioned what I think is the most obvious explanation: Sample playback synths are mainly used to emulate real instruments. So while it's useful to be able to control the volume and maybe filter cutoff frequency in real time, it's not as important to be able to mangle an oboe or cello section with a zillion parameters as is common with analog style synths.

--Ethan

anonymous Fri, 08/15/2003 - 07:20
Hi Ethan,

That is a very good point. I guess I was thinking about something else. I now have my Triton Studio for sale but in using it I noticed that to make new sounds, you end up going through lots of screens to get to the oscillators which you then manipulate with numbers, etc. With the analog, you just turn a knob. So I was wondering why they didn't make creating new sounds easy like that on Romplers. In the end, you do basically the same things to make new sounds except on the Triton it's like programming a database. I'm not just picking on the Triton. I'm sure most Romplers are like that which is what prompted my question.

I'm sure my view point is shared by a minority of people but it seems crazy to pay $3k for a set of presets and even crazier to pay that for a very difficult way to make a new sound. (The Triton obviously has a lot going for it that I'm not mentioning here for the purpose of this conversation.)

Also, many of the sounds on the Romplers are not acoustic and there are some really great ones on the Triton. I know they were created using the internal samples but to make equally good sounds is something that is not easy to do. Then again, when I hear an analog sound, I basically know what to do to get it since I used to work with analogs decades ago. :)

Cheers,
Sioux

Ethan Winer Sat, 08/16/2003 - 05:47
Sioux,

> on the Triton it's like programming a database.
I see large do-it-all synths like the Triton as more than just a sample player. And I agree with you - for that kind of price they could have included at least a few knobs that can be programmed to vary different parameters.

This is one reason I like soft-synths so much more than hardware. You buy one [relatively] inexpensive controller that has assignable sliders, and then you can control whatever your soft-synths allow.

--Ethan

anonymous Sat, 08/16/2003 - 08:04
Hi Ethan,

The Triton has 4 knobs and a ribbon. I do believe there are things you can do programming wise with them other than the obvious, although I couldn't really tell you what. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. I love how the A6 operates and how the manual reads too!! Very straight forward and intentionally user friendly. I think that's just a personality preference....I want easy tweakability....but a lot of people do great things with the Triton and it is really popular.

I love soft synths but haven't really gotten too deep into them yet. I have Kontakt which is first off a sampler but also has synth capabilities, like manipulating oscillators and effects. Pretty cool. What kind of soft synths do you have/like? I'd be interested to know. Other than the A6 that is a likely direction I will head in. I considered Absynth and Atmospheres but still didn't take the plunge. One thing I love about soft synths is that when you "save" everything gets saved into your file. No saving into keyboard sequencers and other HDs. One day I know I will be totally soft synth, except the A6 :) , as soon as I am convinced that the sound quality is comparable.

Sioux

Ethan Winer Sun, 08/17/2003 - 08:20
Sioux,

> The Triton has 4 knobs and a ribbon.
That should be enough. I mean, how many knobs can you turn all at once?

> I love how the A6 operates and how the manual reads too!!
Excellent point. Manuals are one of the most important "features" of any audio gear, yet they are rarely written and organized well enough for non-techie types to understand.

> What kind of soft synths do you have/like?
My first soft-synth was DreamStation, which was stand-alone at the time, but is now bundled with Sonar. I still love it. It's basically a MiniMoog in software, but with total recall and polyphony, and without the hiss, distortion, and pitch drift.

I also have and love Native Instrument's B4 and FM7, and the LiveSynthPro sample player. Those are my main soft-synth axes.

--Ethan

anonymous Sun, 08/17/2003 - 11:38
Hi Ethan,

> The Triton has 4 knobs and a ribbon.
That should be enough. I mean, how many knobs can you turn all at once?
LOL...well, I was thinking more along the lines of what they do instead of how many there are. We may as well not have this conversation though because I never learned how to program the knobs so I can't talk intelligently about them. I just wanted to turn them and have it do what I wanted it to do.....like the A6. :) :) :) I didn't want one knob to have forty functions that have to be programmed. LOL, too late now but if I ever get another Rompler I'll check out that Novation controller Nate is suggesting.

> I love how the A6 operates and how the manual reads too!!
Excellent point. Manuals are one of the most important "features" of any audio gear, yet they are rarely written and organized well enough for non-techie types to understand.
Well you would love this manual then! It starts off by saying, "we've made it easy for you and here's how." Then they progress step by step in a way that lets you know someone put tons of thought into it. They even have huge section on wave forms, MIDI, and synthesis. Very cool! I've read tons of manuals and this is by far the best one I've ever seen.

> My first soft-synth was DreamStation, which was stand-alone at the time, but is now bundled with Sonar. I still love it. It's basically a MiniMoog in software, but with total recall and polyphony, and without the hiss, distortion, and pitch drift. I also have and love Native Instrument's B4 and FM7, and the LiveSynthPro sample player. Those are my main soft-synth axes.
I've never heard of DreamStation, possibly because I'm on a Mac. Sounds good though. I used to have a MiniMoog so I know what you mean. I had a feeling you were going to say NI B4 and FM7. I read some good reviews on them somewhere...SOS or EM. They had the real instrument and the softwares side by side mmaking comparisons. The software got really good marks! I've never heard of LiveSynthPro sample player either.

Sioux

Edit Monday: A storm has knocked out my internet and it may be out all week. Didn't want anyone to think I didn't respond to any posts. I'll be back...Sioux

[ August 18, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: sioux ]

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