a very nice DAW...finally !

[Marcus Black]

I´m about to replace my DAW and I´ve been having serious "protools or not protools"-anxiety for some time now. I´m a producer and songwriter so I need this for my own production suite, I don´t run a commercial studio. I use Logic and if I would get protools it would be for the hardware only. My decision - not protools ! Why ..?

I asked myself what do I need all that dsp power for, whatplug-insdo I intend to use. I have an analog desk and nice outboard that I use a lot so I need the good basics. A couple of nice eq:s, comps and some modulation and special fx. What finally made me decide to not go TDM was when I discovered that 3rd party plug-in developers are makingplug-insfor TC powercore. So I can have a native system with the TCpowercore running the Sony oxford stuff, the TC intonator (instead of auto-tune) and some other 3rd party plugs that seem to pop up more and more frequently. The TC plugs bundled with the powercore are nice aswell. Then I can get a UAD-1 card for the 1176, LA-2A, Pultec Eq, Cambridge eq... Then complete it with a native Waves-bundle that has perfectly enough power from the dual processor G5 that I would get. Then I can always get some more powercore and uad-cards if I run out of dsp-power. I have a gut-feeling that soon basically every 3rd party plug-in ever made will be available for the powercore, UAD-1 or other dsp-card to come.

I would complete this setup with two MOTU 192HD interfaces (which, rumour says..., are built around the same converters as the digidesign 192-interfaces) for 24 channels of analog outs to my desk, an Apogee A/D-converter for tracking and an Apogee Big Ben master clock.

For me, this DAW is worth every penny of its very competitive and reasonable price. It would sound great, I´m sure, and I don´t think dsp-power will be a problem. It feels like a flexible and expandable DAW. I would have to spend A LOT more $$ to be able to run the same amount of the sameplug-inson a TDM system (just compare how many UA1176´s you can instanciate on one digi HD process card and how many of them you can run on the UAD-1. For less than 1/4 of the cost....).

I think a small revolution is at the doorstep if all 3rd party plug and softsynth makers will release their stuff for the powercore and UAD-1. Digi will get serious problems defending the sense and reason in the pricing of their hardware. My opinion ! Right now I´m just happy to have found the best DAW for ME. Let´s go shopping !

 

[Skeetch]

I've been looking for something to replace a VS1880 that I've outgrown so I've been investigating the current crop of dedicated HD recorders out there. I don't need alot of editing capabilities, not a big fan of plugins, and I simply refuse to mix with a mouse. My plan is to do the initial tracking and mixing, then send the talent/band off to a pro mastering house. Or, if they're dead set on shoving their stuff onto a PT rig for mangling, rip all the tracks to WAV on a CD and bid them farewell.

The current leaders in the HD recorder market (SchMackie, Alesis, Tascam) all have strengths and weaknesses, but I keep coming back to the one "outsider" who makes a system that seems to have all the stuff I want, and none of the stuff I don't. Sometime after the first of the year, I'm going to seriously start looking into a Radar24.

 

[Thiago Monteiro]

Ok man, congratulations for you and your system... But I don't change my TDM system for nothing (in the DAW's world, of course).
Everyone knows what is better to oneself...
What is the wonder of a digital world ?
The free will !

Analog or Digital ?
Digital -> HD or Tape ?
Tape -> Adat or DA88 ?
HD -> DAW or 24tr HD Recorder ?
24trHD -> Mackie or Tascam ?
DAW -> Pro Tools or TC Powercore ?

VIVE LA DIFFERENCE !

 

[sdevino]

I mix in PT TDM and never use a mouse. So PT or not PT has nothing to do with mixing with or without a mouse.

I am not sure if you guys are aware, but there is a plugin now that lets you run VST plugins on TDM HW. Not better or worse just another choice.

I also think you should know that UA just came out with plugins for TDM which are at least equal to what runs on the Powercore.

So as long as you do not worry about sharing project load and collaboration with a comercial studio, I think it is great to be able to build these hybrid, native systems for a lot less money than PT.

On the other hand, a TDM rigg has full access to all the native resources that a native app does in addition to the TDM hardware.

Bottom line is there are lots of ways to skin a cat. what works best for you is all that matters.

 

[mcguin]

skeetch - if a RADAR 24 is in your price range - don't even considerer anything else - nothing touches the radar! period.

dan

 

[Skeetch]

Originally posted by dan mcguinness:
skeetch - if a RADAR 24 is in your price range - don't even considerer anything else - nothing touches the radar! period.

dan

At present, it's not really in my price range but I'm investigating various finanacial schemes to make it happen - to ease the sticker shock aspect of it I'm looking at it from an investment standpoint. It'll probably be one of the mid-range systems (the Classic most likely) and I'll upgrade to the Nyquist converters when the budget permits.

 

[Aziel]

Just wanna know the overall cost of the whole equipment of Marcus... :roll:

 

[Thiago Monteiro]

Some TDM plug ins are insuperable.
Focusrite D2 and D3, Line 6 Ampfarm and Echofarm, Lexiverb, Access Virus, Channel Strip, Dolby Encoder and Decoder, Reverb One, Spectra Foo, etc etc etc...

It really makes the diference and makes possible
get a mix with world class pro-audio without outboards. Of course, a Focus Red 2 is very much better than a Focus D2, but the D2 you can have in all channels... As well the LA-2A/1176, Drawmer, Aphex, Sansamp, etc etc etc...

Another thing: Your information (Motu 192HD have the same converters than 192io) do not measure up to the truth.
The 192io is a independent project of Digidesign (different even the 96io).

My opinion is that Digidesign will continues on top of world at least for the next three years.

 

[JavaJunkie]

2 cents on the RADAR,

I just bought a RADAR 24 Project, the cheapest model with the Classic converters. $7000.00 list. Most money I've ever spent on gear. BEST money I've ever spent on gear. No crashes and world class sound. I'd put it up against anything. Still editing on PTLE. Hope to mix in a "real" studio. Now if my recordings suck the only excuse is me.

 

[Sidney]

Originally posted by sdevino:
I am not sure if you guys are aware, but there is a plugin now that lets you run VST plugins on TDM HW. Not better or worse just another choice.

So are you saying if I made the switch from my current Cubase VST5 to PTLE (Digi002), then I'd be able to keep using my Waves Gold, Timeworks, & Antaresplug-ins If so how would that work... another plugin that does some type of conversion? & how much CPU power would it take... would it be for each instance of a plug in?

Thanks,
Sid

 

[tron]

Good choice. TDM has a bad effect on your ceativity, and your sound.
any crap DAW has more performance, more features and a better sound.

 

[JeffreyMajeau]

>TDM has a bad effect on your ceativity, and your sound.
>any crap DAW has more performance, more features and a better sound.

You spew this all over the 'net. It's BS. It's about how you use it! Buy the hardware/recording
setup that works for the way you work. Don't believe that "analog is the ONLY way to go for
the "ultimate sound". You know what, if the song and playing is good, I'll listen to it no matter
what it was tracked on. Some of the best songs have the worst sounds or mixes.

I've been very pleased with the sonic results I've gotten from every single PT rig I've
run, back to the old NuBus setup. I've been less pleased with the analog multitrack stuff
I just replaced, but still thought it put out a good product. It's NOT about the gear.

The guys we all revere ( Phil Ramone, Tom Dowd, Eddie Kramer) could make a phenomenal recording with some chewing gum and a couple of twigs.

Dan Roth
Otitis Media
otitis-media.net
a couple of twigs.

 

[AudioGaff]

MAProTulz wrote:
The guys we all revere ( Phil Ramone, Tom Dowd, Eddie Kramer) could make a phenomenal recording with some chewing gum and a couple of twigs.

Of course they could, but they don't. They, and all of the other greats always use the best gear they have available to them. And many of the greats if not most, will not and do not soley rely on a DAW or PT. Even in their home setups, you'll find that all true professionals will have the highest quality of tools available to them over the cheaper stuff. Every now and then a cheaper piece makes it way through and it is most often only because it offers something that can not be obtained otherwise, but that is rare. So IT IS about the gear, and it does make a difference. But great gear or cheap gear matters not and is wasted if it is used on poor talent, bad songs and arrangements or crappy sounding instruments.

 

[sdevino]

I think this issue has been covered and I am locking this thread so we do not get into a discussion focused on slamming one particular product. Please IM me if you have questions.