Allen & Heath GS-R24

Sean G

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Location
Sydney, Australia
Nice...well done !

Hope it all comes together for you nice and easy...its a great feeling when you experience an NGD or New Gear Day...its a feeling that I myself never tire of. ;)

Post a few pics once you get things set up if you get a chance...it would be great to see it all ready to hit the record button.
 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
Hey vibes I found something that might interest you. It turns out the berringer xtouch, the newer one has LCD Scibble strips!!!! Finally! It uses the hui protocal so still not as fast as the artist mix. But it has transport controls, and can control plugins. For $600 it has a lot of functionality and might be just what you need for now as far as a dedicated control surface. I'm putting it on my list for the mobile / interim rig.

 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
The transport section has some cool stuff too. Particularly the marker drop button, and the track zoom buttons are cool too. This thing seems pretty cool. Probably doesn't feel amazingly heavy duty and the knobs look a little wobbly, but bang for your buck seems like the best option out there.

Of really awsome note is the various functions of the nudge button. This really eases some tedium of the mouse and seems like operation is intuitive enough to actually be faster than the alternative.

The coolest thing about it is the knobs let you control multiple parameters at once. This is great for instance I like to adjust the gain on a an eq and nudge the fader down to maintain balance. Or for playing w compression and makeup gain. I just got sold on this thing.


 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Nice...well done !

Hope it all comes together for you nice and easy...its a great feeling when you experience an NGD or New Gear Day...its a feeling that I myself never tire of. ;)

Post a few pics once you get things set up if you get a chance...it would be great to see it all ready to hit the record button.
Thanks Sean. Good idea about the Pix, I'll try that.
NGD is great and always full of re-routing, patchbay hell and building cables, but in a very sick way.....I love it! The smell of burnt skin and brain cells frying never gets old for me!
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Hey vibes I found something that might interest you. It turns out the berringer xtouch, the newer one has LCD Scibble strips!!!! Finally! It uses the hui protocal so still not as fast as the artist mix. But it has transport controls, and can control plugins. For $600 it has a lot of functionality and might be just what you need for now as far as a dedicated control surface. I'm putting it on my list for the mobile / interim rig.

This is interesting and I can see where this might work well for your portable rig. I'm hoping the combination of my keypad and ZED as control surface do the trick w/o the need of an additional unit. Time will tell of course.

The transport section has some cool stuff too. Particularly the marker drop button, and the track zoom buttons are cool too. This thing seems pretty cool. Probably doesn't feel amazingly heavy duty and the knobs look a little wobbly, but bang for your buck seems like the best option out there.

Of really awsome note is the various functions of the nudge button. This really eases some tedium of the mouse and seems like operation is intuitive enough to actually be faster than the alternative.

The coolest thing about it is the knobs let you control multiple parameters at once. This is great for instance I like to adjust the gain on a an eq and nudge the fader down to maintain balance. Or for playing w compression and makeup gain. I just got sold on this thing.

I do tend to shy away from the B word but....I should try before judging cause you are right, the functions seem very functional and handy! It's gonna be a learning curve for me as usual. Once I get my set up going and work with it a while I'll try to post some real world experiences for me.

Thanks so much for keeping me updated with your research. Labor of love but I guess we gotta make choices at some point! Let me know how this unit works for you if you go with it. I'm trying to be open minded about Ber. as anyone can change or produce some choice pieces.
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Yes, exactly.
@Boswell
Greetings. Your help in the past, wiring up insert cables as pre outs on the R16 was spot on and worked like a charm and I thank you..
I am reconfiguring my cabling and was hoping you could tell me how to wire up a cable to connect the Inserts (utilizing TRS right angle) from the AH Zed R16 as pre outputs to dBsub males for inserting into the backside of my TT patchbay?
I tried to reason this out but am confused.
Thanks in advance,
John
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
@Boswell
Greetings. Your help in the past, wiring up insert cables as pre outs on the R16 was spot on and worked like a charm and I thank you..
I am reconfiguring my cabling and was hoping you could tell me how to wire up a cable to connect the Inserts (utilizing TRS right angle) from the AH Zed R16 as pre outputs to dBsub males for inserting into the backside of my TT patchbay?
I tried to reason this out but am confused.
Thanks in advance,
John

The best I can reason out is to wire the TRS Tip (+) and Ring (-) together. Then the Shield (ground) to the Dsub ground and cold (-) (jumper wire?) and the hot (+) and cold (-) from the TRS together on the hot (+) terminal of the Dsub?
 

Boswell

Moderator
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
Hi John,

It depends what you want to achieve.

If your goal is effectively to move the insert jack to be on the patchbay (so you have both send and return on the patchbay), then use balanced screened cable to wire TRS tip to D hot, TRS ring to D cold and TRS sleeve to D ground. The mixer signal path will need to be maintained for normal mixing, so you will require a TRS plug with just a tip to ring connection kept in the patchbay jack if you are not looping a device through it.

If you just want the insert send to appear as an unbalanced output at the patchbay jack with no return capability, then connect tip to ring on the TRS plug and take the join via the core of a screened cable to the patchbay hot. Screen of the cable from TRS sleeve to patchbay cold and ground. I think this is functionally the same as what you suggested.

An alternative to this is to separate out the insert send and return at the ptchbay and wire them to the tips of half-normalled jack vertical pairs, with ring contacts grounded. This can be useful if you have a lot of gear that is either unbalanced, is electronically balanced or has floating I/O. I can expand on this if needed.

Check that you have got the correct ground pin for the each signal pair on the D plugs - this can matter on patchbays!

Good luck!
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Thanks for the quick reply Bos. I'm considering bringing the insert functions onto the patchbay as an alternative you offered. I don't have the need at this time but who knows?
Could you explain in more detail how I would do this if I decide to?
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Thanks for the quick reply Bos. I'm considering bringing the insert functions onto the patchbay as an alternative you offered. I don't have the need at this time but who knows?
Could you explain in more detail how I would do this if I decide to?
A
Hi John,

It depends what you want to achieve.

If your goal is effectively to move the insert jack to be on the patchbay (so you have both send and return on the patchbay), then use balanced screened cable to wire TRS tip to D hot, TRS ring to D cold and TRS sleeve to D ground. The mixer signal path will need to be maintained for normal mixing, so you will require a TRS plug with just a tip to ring connection kept in the patchbay jack if you are not looping a device through it.

If you just want the insert send to appear as an unbalanced output at the patchbay jack with no return capability, then connect tip to ring on the TRS plug and take the join via the core of a screened cable to the patchbay hot. Screen of the cable from TRS sleeve to patchbay cold and ground. I think this is functionally the same as what you suggested.

An alternative to this is to separate out the insert send and return at the ptchbay and wire them to the tips of half-normalled jack vertical pairs, with ring contacts grounded. This can be useful if you have a lot of gear that is either unbalanced, is electronically balanced or has floating I/O. I can expand on this if needed.

Check that you have got the correct ground pin for the each signal pair on the D plugs - this can matter on patchbays!

Good luck!
My intent is to just use the inserts for sends to the patchbay from the pres on the Zed.
 

Boswell

Moderator
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
OK, then it's basically the wiring you described in your earlier post, or the slightly different but equivalent wiring in my second suggestion. It's up to you whether you use "balanced" cable to bring the send and return to the patchbay and join them there, or to wire tip to ring on the insert plug and use unbalanced cable up to the patchbay. In both cases, the patchbay cold connects to screen.
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Just to follow up a bit. After 13 years of construction, my studio build is nearing completion with the generous help of so many on this forum over the years and more recently! Over the past 6 months or more my computer quandaries have been overwhelming and I don't know what I would have done without Kyle's help! Big shout out to @kmetal!!

@Boswell , regarding the Zed R16, many thanks as the wiring has worked out well and I continue to be in love with the sound of the R16 pres. They are so soft, sweet, clean and usually plenty of quiet gain for my purposes. My present challenge is to utilize the pres without having such a big footprint on my desk by utilizing the whole mixer.

These are not my only pres but they have become essential to me.

I'm trying to come up with a solution for considerably lowering and bringing closer my computer screens, without blocking my midfields too much. The ideal would be to take them off their mounts, bring them closer and build a low angled tray for them to rest in, but that's another matter.

I would hate to hack up the R16 to remount the pres, possibly the unused EQ's and I/O into a usable rack or box. It would be a shame to ruin the rest of the unit I just don't use. I'm waiting to hear back from AH about possibly purchasing separate pres and selling my rig. I'm not hopeful. I haven't been able to find out what those pres are or what might be nearly identical alternatives without going money crazy (money I don't have) with 16 boutique pres.

I'm adequate at wiring and with proper diagrams, could likely build a unit of my own, though I'm probably underestimating the complexity of something like that?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

Boswell

Moderator
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
UK
Good to hear from you again, John! I'm glad things are working out, sonically at least. I agree with you that the Zed-R16 pre-amps are great-sounding, and amazingly good value considering you get 16 of them in one unit.

I can imagine you have considered things like standing the Zed-R16 upright on the floor, resting on its right-hand side panel. That orientation would not occupy desk operational space, and could be cabled relatively easily. However, it would mean that the individual channel gain trims would be less easy to access, and so you would have to balance that against the amount that you adjust them in a typical mix configuration.

The Allen & Heath website does not show any of their current range of stand-alone external pre-amps as having analogue outputs. The current A+H product line seems to reflect their putting a lot of effort into the market for remote-controlled digital-output pre-amps for stage installations and events. I would be interested to hear if you get a reply from them about studio pre-amps with analogue outputs.

Pursuing the possibility of re-positioning the Zed-R16, I had a quick look on the web for flexible shaft extenders that might be usable for making the gain trim knobs accessible from a panel on your desk surface. There seems to be a huge selection of flexible shafting for drill and grinder extension (I have one on my Dremel tool) at widely-varying prices. If the mechanical end couplings could be adapted to fit the gain trim knob shafts, then a set of these might be a way of giving remote access to the trims. Since some of these extension shafts can transfer motion at over 30,000 rpm, it might even be possible to implement a tremolo effect.

For many of my remote recording gigs, I use (pre-Covid) my Zed-R16 mixer where I am also performing PA duties. For purely recording of non-amplified performances, I have a rig based on the Audient ASP880 pre-amps. These I find every bit as good as the A+H pre-amps, and more suited to the recording-only job, which is similar to a studio setting. The ASP880s also can feed their digital ADAT outputs to my Alesis HD24 recorders at up to 96KHz. I would suggest that, before making big decisions, it would be worth trying to audition one of these Audient units to compare it with the A+H sound, as it would solve your equipment configuration problem in the way that you had hoped an A+H pre-amp box might.
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
Good to hear from you again, John! I'm glad things are working out, sonically at least. I agree with you that the Zed-R16 pre-amps are great-sounding, and amazingly good value considering you get 16 of them in one unit.
Absolutely!
I can imagine you have considered things like standing the Zed-R16 upright on the floor, resting on its right-hand side panel. That orientation would not occupy desk operational space, and could be cabled relatively easily. However, it would mean that the individual channel gain trims would be less easy to access, and so you would have to balance that against the amount that you adjust them in a typical mix configuration.
Actually I hadn't thought of that! Unfortunately it might compromise my accessability and flexibility of movement around my desk.
The Allen & Heath website does not show any of their current range of stand-alone external pre-amps as having analogue outputs. The current A+H product line seems to reflect their putting a lot of effort into the market for remote-controlled digital-output pre-amps for stage installations and events. I would be interested to hear if you get a reply from them about studio pre-amps with analogue outputs.
It would be nice but my expectations are low!
Pursuing the possibility of re-positioning the Zed-R16, I had a quick look on the web for flexible shaft extenders that might be usable for making the gain trim knobs accessible from a panel on your desk surface. There seems to be a huge selection of flexible shafting for drill and grinder extension (I have one on my Dremel tool) at widely-varying prices. If the mechanical end couplings could be adapted to fit the gain trim knob shafts, then a set of these might be a way of giving remote access to the trims. Since some of these extension shafts can transfer motion at over 30,000 rpm, it might even be possible to implement a tremolo effect.
Wow! Now that's thinking outside of the box(pun intended)LOL!
For many of my remote recording gigs, I use (pre-Covid) my Zed-R16 mixer where I am also performing PA duties. For purely recording of non-amplified performances, I have a rig based on the Audient ASP880 pre-amps. These I find every bit as good as the A+H pre-amps, and more suited to the recording-only job, which is similar to a studio setting. The ASP880s also can feed their digital ADAT outputs to my Alesis HD24 recorders at up to 96KHz. I would suggest that, before making big decisions, it would be worth trying to audition one of these Audient units to compare it with the A+H sound, as it would solve your equipment configuration problem in the way that you had hoped an A+H pre-amp box might.
I greatly appreciate that suggestion. Finding somewhere to audition the Audient could present quite a challenge for me. I live in a remote rural area and I might have to travel over 300 miles yet, it may be worth the trip. Using the internet for audio samples would be hard to trust. Looks like I've got some research and possibly a road trip ahead of me. Back to door construction and wall plate wiring!

Thanks so much for the ideas and I'll try to follow up with whatever response I get from AH. Stay well and stay safe.
 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
I think vintage king will do loaners on some gear, may be worth checking if they have any audient things around.

If there is a couch and coffee table in the CR maybe you could box in the mixer with plywood and or plexi glass and make a table out of it, with an acces door to any controls you might need.
 

vibrations1951

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Location
hodgdon, me
I think vintage king will do loaners on some gear, may be worth checking if they have any audient things around.
I've heard that in the past. Worth a try!
If there is a couch and coffee table in the CR maybe you could box in the mixer with plywood and or plexi glass and make a table out of it, with an access door to any controls you might need.
I considered that but the space is too tight and even a coffee table would be too close to my desk chair. Good idea though, thanks.
As usual I'm jumping the gun a bit. I've got plenty of other projects to keep me busy for a while.

This was all prompted by being in a furniture store looking for a solution to my back issues that flared up while doing long editing stretches for a project recently. One thing led to another and I started looking at computer arms. For those prices I began looking at other options and here I am.

I'm excited about the Audient ASP880 option yet I'd better cool my jets for a bit and ignore the GAS until I finish other things like doors, painting and wall plate wiring! Then I can concentrate on selling to acquire! Great to hear from ya Kyle and thanks! Haven't heard back from A&H yet and not holding my breath.
 

kmetal

Kyle P. Gushue
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
After reading the book "deskbound" (highly reccomended)written by two well regard sports rehab people, i decided do try out a small standing height desk, and tall stool. Its just a laptop cart, with a couple tote bins on it, (as proof of concept till i do something more elegant) That along with super basic posture techniques have eased up my back pain quite a bit. I haven't done long editing sessions but for my daily youtubing ect its been great.

A screen sharing app like anydesk and tablet might be useful for you too for some things to let you go handheld instead of attached to a qwerty keyboard.

Monitor arms seem like a Good idea too.

Best!!
 
Top